3rd Reef in Main?

[Deleted member 36384]

Aside from objects helpful to gradually deteriorating vision, what are spectacles?

It's 2 stainless steel rings, one either side of the tack reefing cringle on the luff, connected together by webbing. Instead of the sail's tack reefing cringle being fitted over the ram's horn hook when reefing, the stainless steel ring is fitted over. The ring on the other side butts up against the sail's tack reefing cringle when the halyard is tensioned. Its easier to reef with cringles than trying to force the sail's one over the ram's horn.

 

[capnsensible]

Two metal rings securely joined by webbing strap through each reefing cringle on the luff. Makes putting in the reef up at the mast so much easier.

 

[Seajet]

Ever since having to beat into 55 knot winds in the Solent ( not by choice, not forecast ) I have always specified 3 reefs, also a storm jib proved rather handy...

 

[Uricanejack]

Have sailed too often with 3rd reef in to not feel that its very important.....

+1

 

[Uricanejack]

It's 2 stainless steel rings, one either side of the tack reefing cringle on the luff, connected together by webbing. Instead of the sail's tack reefing cringle being fitted over the ram's horn hook when reefing, the stainless steel ring is fitted over. The ring on the other side butts up against the sail's tack reefing cringle when the halyard is tensioned. Its easier to reef with cringles than trying to force the sail's one over the ram's horn.

Interesting, never heard of this. you live and learn.

 

[capnsensible]

Interesting, never heard of this. you live and learn.

If you thank me, I can have a lakesailor!!!

 

[capnsensible]

View attachment 31662 View attachment 31663 View attachment 31664

Just nipped next door to get these

 

[Uricanejack]

View attachment 31662 View attachment 31663 View attachment 31664

Just nipped next door to get these

Thankyou. It looks like an idea I should try.

 

[Uricanejack]

At the risk of being told I‘m full of it.

A box of cornflakes or a paper bag will sail down wind.
You want to go down wind bare poles will work.

It has been my experience if you want to make ground to windward you have to balance the boat. To do so as the wind gets up you have to reduce sail evenly both fore and aft of the mast so your center of effort stay close to mid ship.
If you are not balanced you have to put the rudder well over to go straight you might as well be dragging a barn door. End result you go side ways.

Furling sails are great up to a point. Personally in variable winds I found I tend to adjust the size of the headsail much more often than with hanked. I will wait longer to reduce and carry full sail longer. Over powered in gusts. When it gets a little hairy I furl up a 3rd. As it dies a bit ease it back out. I don’t touch the main until its in there full time. In goes the first reef. Back to full head sail same story till I put the 2nd reef in. I’m good with double reefed main and a furled headsail up till I see spindrift overpowered, deck edge under, water in the cockpit in the gusts wishing I had a 3rd reef.
Any more and I best be going down wind
I improved things by getting a smaller No 2 headsail for my furler. If I was expecting a bit of a blow I’d change before I set out.
My local sail maker recommended against a 3rd reef due to sail not heavy enough. If I wanted he would make me a sail with heavier cloth but it never fit my budget.
My new boat has an extensive set of headsails which is great but dam it only 2 reefs. It has a trysail but no 2nd track.
A 3rd reef will be a high priority.
Having sailed with a 3rd reef and a trysail. Its a heck of a lot easier to put a 3rd reef in.

It depends wher you sail, Currently Inshore, Sheltered water, lots of options, 2 reefs works most of the time.

 

[davidej]

Well that is one point of view. I wonder what is research consisted of? Have there been a spate of boats sinking with only two reefing points in summer storms; the crew being picked up from their life rafts muttering, incoherently, if only we had a third reefing point?

I have two reefing points. No plans for a third on this or any other boat in the future.

+1

My third reef is the donk

 

[Sgeir]

Thanks, BoB and cap'n - I should have explained as I'd never heard of spectacles either until Webbie mentioned them. I've found them really handy, and makes reefing at the mast much faster, and, by virtue of speed, safer in bad conditions.

Incidentally, the other little add-on (that is, if you haven't got one already) for a new sail is a Cunnigham - a tensioning line between the boom and the foot of the mast. Doesn't half make it it easy to adjust the boom and get optimum sail shape, and very useful even on an old fashioned cruiser like ours.

 

[ColinR]

I wouldn't be without my third reef. I got talked out of it by the sailmaker when I had a new main a few years ago and regretted it in a Biscay near gale when I ran out of reefs. I was well over-canvassed with only 2 reefs in. I had a third reef put in and have used it quite a bit. I also have a trisail and that is better than a third reef in a full gale, but its a bit more of project to get it set up whereas the third reef is easy so you dont put it off. My boat heaves to best with a triple reefed main or trisail and no headsail so once you have the third reef in you are all set for heavy weather whether you keep sailing or heave to. Boat is a Victoria 30, I suppose it depends on your boat but I wouldn't like to go offshore without being able to really reef down.

 

[PhillM]

Interesting thread, just borght a new main. Sailmaker (who I knw to be good and I respect) told me that for my boat what I needed was a deep 1st and a second reef that was where a 3rd would be (40% area).

So, I have 2 but I am led to believe that what I am missing is really a 2nd, does that make sense?

Current crusing plans and coastal but before going on any really long trips I expect to add a tri sail to the sail plan.

Currently the plan works like this:

up to F3 gusting F4 - Full main + Gen

F4 gusting F5 - 1st reef + no 1 Jib

F5 gusting F6 1st reef + working Jib

Then (and these are not tested yet)

F7 gusting F8 (not tested) 2nd Reef + Working Jib

F8 gusting ... (not tested) 2nd Reef + Storm Jib hove too

 

[oldbilbo]

Incidentally, the other little add-on (that is, if you haven't got one already) for a new sail is a Cunnigham - a tensioning line between the boom and the foot of the mast. Doesn't half make it it easy to adjust the boom and get optimum sail shape, and very useful even on an old fashioned cruiser like ours.

Cunningham? Or kicking strap.....? Unclear.....

 

[geem]

Our last boat was a catamaran with an extra tall rig (8ft taller than standard). We had a fourth reef fitted for an Atlantic circuit. The main was fully battened and time consuming to remove. A tri-sail would have been difficult to set and time consuming to remove the main. It worked very well. I was suprised how often we used the forth reef. On a bumpy passage it is sometimes nice to reef right down and chill out to rest and cook. It was also handy when we had to slow down to avoid a passing low pressure system on the way back across the Atlantic. We could still sail the boat nicely balanced and comfortable but slowly giving the autopilot and easy time and the crew

 

[Sgeir]

The mainsheet, the kicking strap and the Cunningham all exert downward tension on differerent parts of the sail. The Cunningham is often/usually attached between the mainsail's primary reefing point near the tack and the foot of the mast. Its purpose is to provide precise and easily adjustable tension on the luff - much easier and more effective than adjusting the halyard. I believe that it is quite common on racing rigs. On our boat, a forty year old cruiser, we don't bother using the primary reefing point but connect directly to the tack end of the boom which can slide up from its lowest position in the mast track.

In conjunction with the kicking strap and main sheet we (rarely more than just the two of us) find that it gives us great flexibility and significantly improves performance on a fairly traditional short masted bermudian rig.

 

[Blueboatman]

Just realised that I have 42 reefing options in my junk rigged ketch. Blondie Hasler said there was nothing better for beating off a lee shore in a gale. Instant reefing and a perfectly set sail each time.

Chris with respect that is not quite true: Haslar went to the trouble of writing a short YM article ( might have been PBO, lost my paper cutting) after getting into some concern and difficulties circumnavigating Jura deep reefed in his Kingfisher.
Once you break the yard on a junk, what then?

I'm going to regret this post eh? I know how justly proud you are of the rigs flexibility..

 

[Blueboatman]

Golly I don't think I have ever sailed with an engine that 'does' as a third reef. Oh hang on, that Gardner 6xl in a Zulu fishing boat was pretty good, it being up the front and all to keep the boat in the water..

Moi, three reefs, three mainsails, one sewing machine that will 'do'. Folded flat the spare sails are tucked away as trimming ballast.
I quite fancy a trysail, track, all ready to 'go'. One day....

 

[Twister_Ken]

One little thing to remember if you opt for a third reef. Make sure that the sail slides don't stack higher in the mast track than the third luff cringle. Been there, done that, quite embarrassing.

 

[laika]

I haven't heard ever of 4 reef main before. Usually three reefs and the option of a storm trysail is sufficient.

Kemp are pushing a 4th reef for their offshore cruising sails. It's a little scrap of extra reinforced sail for those that don't carry a trysail. I believe it's not intended to have a permanently rigged reefing line (who's got that many sheaves anyway?). I'll be reminded of how to rig it when I finish my refit and ask them to deliver my new main (I don't have trysail or second track and got talked into it). If it gets that bad I'd be wanting to just point downwind with only storm jib on the new inner forestay I don't yet have (see "refit" above) but hey, you never know

Currently have 3 reefs. 3rd gets put in about F7.