longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Penlee. Never forgotten.
39 years ago tonight
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
Adios
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Just refreshed my memory and saw this on the wikipedia entry "Neil Brockman, the son of Nigel Brockman, got to the lifeboat station on time, but was turned down for the trip by Trevelyan Richards, who was reluctant to take out two members of the same family that night." They really know whats at stake when they go out don't they. Hats off and then some.
oldgit
Well-known member
sarabande
Well-known member
"Penlee lifeboat, Penlee lifeboat. This is Falmouth Coastguard. Over"
a
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"Penlee lifeboat, Penlee lifeboat. This is Falmouth Coastguard. Over"
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No words will ever be enough to recognise their outstanding bravery.
a
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"Penlee lifeboat, Penlee lifeboat. This is Falmouth Coastguard. Over"
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No words will ever be enough to recognise their outstanding bravery.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Yes those recoded words will live on in maritime History forever
Leighb
Well-known member
I remember the tragic event, such courage and sacrifice should not be forgotten. My only connection to it is that our then neighbour in Newmarket, from whom we had bought our house, was David (later Sir David) Robinson the notable philanthropist who gave the RNLI the funds to pay for a new replacement vessel which was named after his mother. When he died he left the residue of his estate, a very large sum of money, to the RNLI. He had, a few years earlier, given his children multi million amounts and told them “that is all you are going to get”.
As far as I know he had no maritime connections.
As far as I know he had no maritime connections.
Blueboatman
Well-known member
A few months after Penlee, I rocked up in Cornwall all innocent and immature, on my clapped out old motorbike, to study engineering and boatbuilding .
Penlee and ‘what went wrong’ were THE huge, grave and recurrent theme and quite rightly so .
More recently , I know radio 4 serialised Dark, Salt,Clear, centred around Newlyn which some may have caught?
The actual book manages to describe rather well I thought, just how tightknit are the small Mounts Bay fishing community.
And I write as a complete WAFI.
Apologies to Fisherman et al for just skimming the gloss across the surface.
Penlee and ‘what went wrong’ were THE huge, grave and recurrent theme and quite rightly so .
More recently , I know radio 4 serialised Dark, Salt,Clear, centred around Newlyn which some may have caught?
The actual book manages to describe rather well I thought, just how tightknit are the small Mounts Bay fishing community.
And I write as a complete WAFI.
Apologies to Fisherman et al for just skimming the gloss across the surface.
SimonFa
Well-known member
I was teaching at the Zimbabwe School of Signals and the tragedy passed me by and never entered my conscience, I wasn't in to sailing either. Although I have heard of it I've never really taken in what happened so I've just been reading up on the subject and from Wiki:
Reading that brought a few tears.
Reading that brought a few tears.
PilotWolf
Well-known member
Adios
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I was shocked to see more than 600 people have died in the lifeboat service List of lifeboat disasters in Britain and Ireland - Wikipedia
But very interested to see none since Penlee. Amazing really. It was practically an annual occurrence at some points, with whole crews being lost a couple of times a decade. And then after Penlee the losses abruptly stopped.
I double checked with the RNLI memorial page Names on the RNLI Memorial sculpture and sure enough nothing comparable has happened since. An Irish helicopter crew was lost in 1999, a winchman in Scotland, 3 RNLI volunteers of natural causes while on duty and an independent lifeboatman from an exploding flare. But no boat has been lost nor anyone from a lifeboat during a rescue.
Looking at their timeline Timeline - Our history new classes of steel and aluminium hulled lifeboats came online soon after Penlee's wooden lifeboat was lost. I wonder how much as a result of donations received following Penlee (not least from Sir David Robinson as mentioned) and in effect those who died are continuing to save lives by the sacrifice they made.
But very interested to see none since Penlee. Amazing really. It was practically an annual occurrence at some points, with whole crews being lost a couple of times a decade. And then after Penlee the losses abruptly stopped.
I double checked with the RNLI memorial page Names on the RNLI Memorial sculpture and sure enough nothing comparable has happened since. An Irish helicopter crew was lost in 1999, a winchman in Scotland, 3 RNLI volunteers of natural causes while on duty and an independent lifeboatman from an exploding flare. But no boat has been lost nor anyone from a lifeboat during a rescue.
Looking at their timeline Timeline - Our history new classes of steel and aluminium hulled lifeboats came online soon after Penlee's wooden lifeboat was lost. I wonder how much as a result of donations received following Penlee (not least from Sir David Robinson as mentioned) and in effect those who died are continuing to save lives by the sacrifice they made.
matt1
Well-known member
This thread inspired me to watch this again
westhinder
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing
Bajansailor
Well-known member
@Athomson - I think that many of the lifeboats in the RNLI fleet in the early 80's were still the relatively slow Watson type like (or similar to) the Solomon Brown - Watson-class lifeboat - Wikipedia
and including the Oakley and the Rother classes - Rother-class lifeboat - Wikipedia.
The Penlee lifeboat had two Gardner inboard diesel engines, 60 hp each, driving propellers in tunnels. Even in full astern mode, they would not have been very effective in trying to pull her away from the ship in distress, especially so when one considers the hurricane force conditions they were experiencing at the time.
The RNLI had already started to move towards faster offshore boats earlier with the Arun and the Waveney classes - even if the Solomon Brown had been one of these, she might still have not been able to get away from the casualty in the horrendous sea conditions that they experienced..
The program to replace the slow boats was probably accelerated as a result of Penlee, aided no doubt by increased donations,
The steel 47' Tyne class came on stream soon after, along with the Mersey a few years later.
And then the prototype (FAB 3) for the 17 metre Severn class was built in 1990 and she was a game changer - she had the ability to maintain 25 knots, even in fairly horrific conditions, thanks to a pair of 1,200 hp Caterpillar diesels driving her. Her power is 20 times the power of the Solomon Brown. The earlier Fast Afloat Boats (the Waveney and the Thames), along with the Tyne and the Mersey, were much faster at around 16 - 17 knots than the Watsons, but they did not have the sheer grunt power of the Severn and the 14 metre Trent.
The Tamar and Shannon classes followed, and all of these have been 25 knot boats - and I am sure that this is one of the main reasons for the dramatic improvement in the fatality rate, along with the huge advances in construction technology, machinery, navigation and safety equipment, training and everything else.
and including the Oakley and the Rother classes - Rother-class lifeboat - Wikipedia.
The Penlee lifeboat had two Gardner inboard diesel engines, 60 hp each, driving propellers in tunnels. Even in full astern mode, they would not have been very effective in trying to pull her away from the ship in distress, especially so when one considers the hurricane force conditions they were experiencing at the time.
The RNLI had already started to move towards faster offshore boats earlier with the Arun and the Waveney classes - even if the Solomon Brown had been one of these, she might still have not been able to get away from the casualty in the horrendous sea conditions that they experienced..
The program to replace the slow boats was probably accelerated as a result of Penlee, aided no doubt by increased donations,
The steel 47' Tyne class came on stream soon after, along with the Mersey a few years later.
And then the prototype (FAB 3) for the 17 metre Severn class was built in 1990 and she was a game changer - she had the ability to maintain 25 knots, even in fairly horrific conditions, thanks to a pair of 1,200 hp Caterpillar diesels driving her. Her power is 20 times the power of the Solomon Brown. The earlier Fast Afloat Boats (the Waveney and the Thames), along with the Tyne and the Mersey, were much faster at around 16 - 17 knots than the Watsons, but they did not have the sheer grunt power of the Severn and the 14 metre Trent.
The Tamar and Shannon classes followed, and all of these have been 25 knot boats - and I am sure that this is one of the main reasons for the dramatic improvement in the fatality rate, along with the huge advances in construction technology, machinery, navigation and safety equipment, training and everything else.
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Adios
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Great info Bajansailor thanks.
I saw one of the Harwich pilot boats close up when they came into suffolk yacht harbour to refuel. When it left the berth it looked like it had not just a bow thruster but also side thrusters midships and stern. Do any of the lifeboats have that? Makes sense for spending time alongside a ship
I saw one of the Harwich pilot boats close up when they came into suffolk yacht harbour to refuel. When it left the berth it looked like it had not just a bow thruster but also side thrusters midships and stern. Do any of the lifeboats have that? Makes sense for spending time alongside a ship
Stemar
Well-known member
Or alongside rocks. They probably spend as much time rescuing people cut off by the tide as they do errant yotties and broken ships.
The causes of the disaster are seriously angry-making:
"Near the south coast of Cornwall, 8 miles (13 km) east of the Wolf Rock, the new ship's engines failed.[1] The crew was unable to restart them but did not make a mayday call.[2] Assistance was offered by a tug, the Noord Holland, under the Lloyd's Open Form salvage contract but Morton initially refused the offer" - from the Wikipedia article
I'm no fan of compulsion - you WILL be rescued, but that's an argument that's hard to refute in favour of it. It would also be hard to argue with someone who stood the lifeboat down and refused to put more lives at risk after that, but I'd hate to have to live with myself after giving that order, and I suspect that the kind of person who volunteers to cox a lifeboat would likely have a sudden attack of radio failure if it were to be transmitted.
Adios
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Worth watching the video above. They expected to get the engine going, probably reasonably as it was a new ship and they had multiple fuel tanks to switch between (they later found it was water in the fuel which stopped the engine), and the tug offer came early on before they'd been able to conclude it wasn't going to be possible. They drifted in towards shore faster than they realised (being pre-GPS) and by then was too shallow for the tug. The enquiry didn't find fault with them for that decision.
It crossed my mind at what point does bravery become recklessness, could a lifeboat coxswain ever be accused of trying too hard? There has to be a balance point, there certainly is when it comes to rescue helicopters who frequently refuse to try due to the conditions but i guess for them they could have a set max wind speed, then fairly easy to define a cut off point, more variables in the lifeboats decision.
In this case though I wonder if the make up of the rescued people made the critical difference. The lifeboat had already been dropped on top of the ship and the coxswain must have realised how lucky they were to get away with that not least in a wooden boat, they got half the people off and made it away... you'd think they could have reasonably decided to take those to safety at that point, but they went back. If i heard it right on the video they had rescued the mother and only one child. Could they steam away and leave the other child on the rocks with the mother on board?
[3889]
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I was watching an old repeat of some Rick Stein show the other day and he was in the Ship. There was a brief shot of Nigel Brockman grinning and serving food. It made me swallow hard.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Humm yes I think that if or when a Vessel is in Territorial Waters the decision to make good and proper use of a Rescue Tug or Boat lies with the Country in whos Territorial Waters the vessel is in; Certainly not lying with either the Vessel Master or the Company who lets face it, are considering financial and 'egg on face' issues not SAFETY plus they have Insurance to cover some costs, but not lives, eh ?
Understood that following Oil Tankers spilling Oil when run aground the decision was made to prevent that happening at all costs Vessels in difficulties must avail themselves of assistance from Tugs or other Suitable vessels if instructed to do so.
Think that believing in resisting compulshion or orders in this day and age is absolutely bonkers and should be squashed at every opportunity whatever the reason
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
Severns and Tamars have bow thrusters.
Only ever seen them used when berthing, particularly with a casualty vessel being towed alongside. Don't know if they'd use them alongside a ship, as I'm more of an ILB sort of chap.
When they have to pick people up off rocks, they usually use their Y class inflatable. Launched by a Hiab crane on the Severn, and out of an opening after deck on the Tamar.
Very James Bond.
Alicatt
Well-known member
It is heart breaking hearing about any loss, and around the Pentland Firth we have had a few.
The RNLI was always our family's charity, and thanks to our customers they raised a lot for the RNLI.
It was one of Wick's lifeboat crew that nicknamed me Young Bob a long time ago
When the Tyne Class was first going to be introduced I was lucky enough to be allowed on the City of London when she was taken up to Wick for trials to see how she would work on the slipway, and I got to pilot her around the coast, she was twice as fast as the Princess Marina Oakley class that the Tyne class was going to replace. At first the lifeboat crew were not 100% sure of the Tyne as she was very different than the 48'6" Oakley it was replacing, but they did warm to the new boat when she arrived.
Going out on The City of London was one of the last trips I did with my father, he never got to see the Norman Salvesen (47-016) arrive, he passed away shortly before she arrived, I stood in for my father at the naming and dedication ceremony.
