lw395
Well-known member
When it's new, I expect it to meet the spec, e.g. CCA, reserve and Ah etc.
But once it's a few years old, I'm not going to change it just because it's no longer fit for a Norwegian Winter, as I'm in Hampshire.
3 output Victron charger
- Thread starter KenMcCulloch
- Start date
When it's new, I expect it to meet the spec, e.g. CCA, reserve and Ah etc.
But once it's a few years old, I'm not going to change it just because it's no longer fit for a Norwegian Winter, as I'm in Hampshire.
dom
Well-known member
A similar question came up last summer. So I contacted Trojan, Yuasa and Varta over the practice often recommended on here by PR amongst others whereby a VSR effectively opens the start battery to whatever charge the domestic bank is receiving. The charging capacity for most boats is in turn typically comprised of a single-sensed solar/wind input, coupled with a machine/single-sensed alternator.
The question is whether extended exposure to 14.4/14.8V will do any harm to the typical SLA starter batt. Trojan saw no serious problem (unless for really long exposures) as long as their flooded batteries are regularly watered. They did not recommend this practice for SLAs.
Yuasa and Varta were of the same opinion as Plevier that an extended exposure of a fully charged start SLA to 14.4V was a very bad idea. It's fine for a few hours here and there, but not fine to boost a fully charged SLA from float to 14.4Vish either every morning when the sun comes up/when the wind blows and the domestic bank requires charging.
The OEMs appear pretty unified on this point and given the vital safety nature of a starter battery it is hard to see why anyone would ignore them.
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So as I understand it people are concerned with applying a charge via a shore charger to the hotel bank and invoking the VSR therefore applying a current to the start bank. Is this correct?
lw395
Well-known member
More voltage than current, but yes.
<152587>
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Then there is a simple fix. Disable the VSR, enable via ignition sense so it only invokes whilst motor is running. Simples.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Your usual ridiculous solution.
The question raised was that of dual output chargers, how does disabling the VSR make a difference ?
How will you disable the VSR ?
Why would you fit a VSR, then disable it, only to re-enable it with ignition sensing ?
Now you have it enabled with the engine running, what's the difference, the alternator is outputting 14.4v volts to the starter battery ?
Totally nuts.
VicS
Well-known member
Not relevant in this case but a VSR can be disabled by putting a switch in its negative connection and switching it off.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Why would you fit a dual sensing VSR, break the negative, connect it to "an ignition sense", so it only closes when the engine is running ?
Surely a single sensing VSR would be a better solution ?
If you don't want the mains charger charging the engine battery, don't fit a dual sensing VSR and don't fit a dual output mains charger. A single output mains charger and a low loss splitter makes a proper job of it, if that's the system you want. Of course, that ignore the fact that the alternator will be exposing the starter battery to 14.4v all the time the engine is running.
<152587>
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Ok so to add to my ridiculous solution. Presumably we have a charger that has 3 outputs from a single power supply to charge 3 banks, the charger does not take account of each state of charge? These 3 outputs may be utilised singly, double or all 3. The 3 outputs from the power source must be isolated from each other within the enclosure as to isolate each bank. Invoking the VSR during charge is effectively making the selector switch redundant as now both banks are on line.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
How does disabling a VSR stop a 3 output charger charging the engine battery ?
The thread is about multi output mains chargers, not VSRs.
halcyon
Well-known member
These are new modern chargers ? in 1985 I made mains battery chargers, they charged the service bank first to 14.2/4 volt, then engaged the port VSR to charge port engine / service battery banks to 14.2/4V. The starboard VSR was then engaged to charge the starboard engine / service / port battery banks to 14.2/4 volt, then dropped to 13.6 volt float charge on all batteries, acting then as a power supply. When engine charging the VSR's acted normally.
Why cannot manufactures make proper battery charging systems these days ?.
Brian
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You miss the point.
I do not apologise for challenging your perceived position as self appointed electrical guru to the boating fraternity. From your aggressive replies you obviously feel a threat to your position on this forum.
matthewriches
Active member
Getting back to brass tacks. My book of words makes reference along the lines of...
"
The starter battery is subject to 2 conditions of use.
1. Shallow discharge due to starting the engine once or twice a day.
2. No discharge at all.
In practice however the starter battery will very often be charged in parallel with the house battery, which is acceptable as long as the right type of battery is used and some decrease of service life is accepted.
"
So basically using the Victron charger as the OP has, with 3 isolated outputs - it needs 1 to house and 1 to engine. The last output remains unconnected as bridging not needed on this type of charger.
Batteries sit on the same charge stage until all the batteries are happy then move on to the next stage until it reaches the last state of charge.... lounging about waiting to be used. If the charger is still on when power is used then the Victron will act as a power supply until you really hit it hard, then power is also taken from the batteries.
The last few words make it clear that there could be a reduction in service life of the engine battery. So by that we conclude that using the Victron charger as a multi isolated output charger can be used to charge a high turnover domestic bank and a very rarely used starter bank but the starter bank may have a shorter lifespan.
I'm going to enjoy my dinner now as sat in a restaurant on my phone is rude lol
"
The starter battery is subject to 2 conditions of use.
1. Shallow discharge due to starting the engine once or twice a day.
2. No discharge at all.
In practice however the starter battery will very often be charged in parallel with the house battery, which is acceptable as long as the right type of battery is used and some decrease of service life is accepted.
"
So basically using the Victron charger as the OP has, with 3 isolated outputs - it needs 1 to house and 1 to engine. The last output remains unconnected as bridging not needed on this type of charger.
Batteries sit on the same charge stage until all the batteries are happy then move on to the next stage until it reaches the last state of charge.... lounging about waiting to be used. If the charger is still on when power is used then the Victron will act as a power supply until you really hit it hard, then power is also taken from the batteries.
The last few words make it clear that there could be a reduction in service life of the engine battery. So by that we conclude that using the Victron charger as a multi isolated output charger can be used to charge a high turnover domestic bank and a very rarely used starter bank but the starter bank may have a shorter lifespan.
I'm going to enjoy my dinner now as sat in a restaurant on my phone is rude lol
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
I do not miss the point, you are the one missing the point.
HOW DOES DISABLING A VSR STOP A MULTI OUTPUT CHARGER CHARGING THE ENGINE BATTERY ?
You can't answer it because the answer is, it does not, it cannot and it will not. If you think your hair brained suggestions pose a threat to anyones electrical knowledge you are demented.
VicS
Well-known member
Your posts are becoming so aggressive they must be getting close to infringing the forum rules.......................... Shouting and calling another forumite demented!
I suggest you cool it unless you want to spend some time on shoreleave.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
VicS
Well-known member
No just a friendly word of warning.
RichardS
N/A
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GrahamM376
New member
I can't help but wonder why some people feel the need to constantly charge their engine battery, do they plug the car in every time they park it for a week? My car battery when disconnected will still start the car after many months and once reconnected and engine started, is topped up in no time. Boat engine batteries (assuming dedicated to engine, no domestic use) are usually under engine charge into marina and then isolated with no loads until next use so, why the need to have connected to a charger for week or 3 standing?
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RichardS
N/A
It's a fair point .... but I suppose the answer must be that if you can keep the starter battery fully charged, then why not? Provided your system is clever enough not to overcharge the start battery, it will last longer if always on charge.
My daily car batteries last around 5 - 7 years whereas my convertible car battery which stays in the garage on permanent charge for 11 months of the year gets through them around every 10 years.
Richard
