3 "Mayday" calls today in the Solent/Isle of Wight

[Triassic]

The thing with stopping the boat first is that will take time - possibly 5-10 minutes if you've got all the sails up .. .

Perhaps if you happen to be on a 200' three masted square rigger..... not on 99.9% of the boats I see sailing around the British coast. You just put the helm over and stuff the head into the wind, that takes seconds! Even the greenest of crews I sometimes sail with know how to do this. If they can then furl/dump the headsail then that's a bonus, if not I make sure they know to release the main sheet. As I said earlier I make a point of going through MOB drills every time I sail with a new crew and even someone who has never sailed before is quite capable of stopping a boat, especially if just under white sails.

I've only practiced it once properly with the spinnaker up because re-reeving the halyard through the mast is a bit of a pain, but I was impressed just how quickly she stopped once the halyard and tack were let go leaving the sail in the water trailing by the sheet. This immediately pulled the boat around into a crash gybe and she just lay there effectively hove to.

10 seconds with your head down the companionway not looking at the MOB may be something you can get away with on your boat, it certainly isn't on mine. As was agreed early on in this thread there is no one rule for all circumstances.

 

[prv]

OK, so while you're reaching into the cabin, pressing the DSC button and then backing it up with the voice Mayday who is sailing the boat?

If it's just me left on board then I'm not going to be reading off a voice Mayday. And no, pressing the DSC Distress button isn't going to be my first action - like you, that will be stuffing the bow through the wind to stop the boat, just like I did on my Day Skipper course all those years ago in post #42. But unless the person in the water is smiling up at me saying "well that was bloody silly of me, wasn't it", pressing the DSC button at the helm will be happening at some early point in the proceedings. That logs a time and position both on board and ashore, just in case I lose sight of my MOB and need a reference point for a search, and it gets help under way in case I end up needing it. If I don't, I can always cancel it.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

Triassic, I get the idea fireball has a fairly responsive boat, almost as good as mine !

Maybe we are all tending to not so much forget in use, but forget to mention here, some of the kit we carry as a result of the hard learned lessons of those who go before ?

For a start, on my YM course, the school and instructors were fantastic, ( Solent School of Yachting, sadly no more ) but I did notice something like ' target fixation ' creeping in with the less experienced students...

I asked one ' right, if I went over the side now, what would you do ? ' --- ' Well I'd put her onto a reach, get the main right out and grab the whole sheet,....'

I interrupted him, ' I'd be quite keen on you throwing me the f***ing horseshoe lifebuoy first ! '

Practicing with a bucket and fender this is easily overlooked, let alone the trouble of getting someone back aboard; I know as I've been that someone.

Same goes for danbuoys, I'm a great believer in these and have a RORC job with a drogue & light - also have smoke floats and buoyant cushions to leave a trail back to the casualty ( wind permitting ) and every lifejacket has a light; especially with small crews one needs to equip one's arsenal against all the battering sod's law can fire at one...

Remember it's no good being chuffed by quickly sendng a Mayday, it's sometimes a great idea but how long will it take for help to arrive ? If not a couple of minutes matey in the water may have had it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I interrupted him, ' I'd be quite keen on you throwing me the f***ing horseshoe lifebuoy first ! '

My crew are briefed that if anyone goes over we throw anything that floats at them ("Ouch! That hurts."), starting with the lifebuoy and moving through the cockpit cushions and the activated EPIRB. We would also untie the dinghy painter and let that go too.

 

[Seajet]

Sounds good, but

A, may need a drogue on the dinghy ?

B, can it be boarded from the water ? I don't think my rigid job could be without capsizing it, though of course adrenaline is a wonderful thing.

 

[fireball]

Triassic, I get the idea fireball has a fairly responsive boat, almost as good as mine !

The boat I sail now is very responsive - but it doesn't have a fixed VHF, galley or heads ... and if there was a MOB it's quite likely the boat would stop of it's own accord ...

However, the boat I used to sail was far less responsive and would, on autopilot at least, carry on regardless of who was or wasn't onboard ... but then it had a VHF remote mike at the helm and pressing that little red button could be done whilst disengaging the autopilot and/or starting the engine....

In either case the chances of MOB are/were slight ... I think the worst two things we had overboard and recovered were a shoe and a boathook ...

 

[Seajet]

talking of ' every gadget in one's armoury ', years ago I had a thing like a large yellow grenade, the idea was one could throw it much further than a lifebuoy and when it hit the water near the casualty it would inflate into a medium lifering to grab onto.

We'd had quite few hectic sails when the thing got a lot of heavy spray one way or another, so as an excuse to try it we decided we had no faith in it, so dropped it over the side at the mooring; it lay just under the surface, lifeless, the only use to a casualty might be to knock them out and end it all quickly - hopefully after one had got their PIN number.

 

[Seajet]

One pet idea of mine concerns the worry of singlehanding with autoppilot on, none of us fancy seeing our pride & joy disappearing over the horizon while we are left swimming; I've tried this from water level and it works for me, I'd think for most.

Take a strong thin line - can be lacing stuff, doesn't have to be dyneema or anything - tie a reasonably tight bowline around the autopilot ram.

Drape line over pushpit, with the float of one's choice on the end.

The line needs to be at the very least 100' long for quick witted people.

A pull on it will disengage the autopilot; one's problems are not over as a way of getting back aboard is required, but at least the boat is still around.

Obviously it could be a Gotcha if one forgets it when motoring in a marina berth, but...

 

[Birdseye]

In my modest time in the Solent this year I have heard at least two people nominate 67 as their intended working channel

Why not? Much of the inshore fishing fleet uses 16 for chatting.

 

[Triassic]

One pet idea of mine concerns the worry of singlehanding with autoppilot on,

Going OB whilst singlehanded is probably the only thing that really scares me when sailing, or at least gives me regular nightmares! Fear is perhaps good in this context because I'm religious about clipping on whilst alone, even in the most benign of weather and I'll never leave the cockpit without clipping on with the autopilot engaged... however the prospect of being dragged along at 10 knots plus isn't very welcoming either so I always wear the remote for the tiller pilot around my neck! I haven't actually tested the range yet to see if I can turn the boat around myself and sail it back to me, perhaps that's something to try on a nice summer afternoon.....

 

[Seajet]

If it's just me left on board then I'm not going to be reading off a voice Mayday. And no, pressing the DSC Distress button isn't going to be my first action - like you, that will be stuffing the bow through the wind to stop the boat, just like I did on my Day Skipper course all those years ago in post #42. But unless the person in the water is smiling up at me saying "well that was bloody silly of me, wasn't it", pressing the DSC button at the helm will be happening at some early point in the proceedings. That logs a time and position both on board and ashore, just in case I lose sight of my MOB and need a reference point for a search, and it gets help under way in case I end up needing it. If I don't, I can always cancel it.

Pete

This is where plotters score - not that familiar with IPads etc, but don't think you get an instant MOB button to press recording position of casualty or even steer back there on auto ?

 

[mm42]

AIS MOB beacons seem to be getting cheaper, plus can be rigged inside certain lifejackets, I've got a Kannad Safelink in my Deckvest, if the LJ fires so does the MOB beacon and I'd appear on everyone's AIS displays ready to be collected.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Sounds good, but

A, may need a drogue on the dinghy ?

B, can it be boarded from the water ? I don't think my rigid job could be without capsizing it, though of course adrenaline is a wonderful thing.

The aim isn't as much to provide a way of getting out the water, but to provide a trail of debris which we can follow back and others can spot. I wouldn't let the dinghy go in strong winds because, as you suggest, it might blow unhelpfully far away.

My usual crew has climbed from the water into the dinghy dozens of times, but that's after capsizing it, and it floats a lot lower when half full of water. It would ... will ... be an interesting experiment to try with the dinghy dry some time.

 

[prv]

This is where plotters score - not that familiar with IPads etc, but don't think you get an instant MOB button to press recording position of casualty or even steer back there on auto ?

On an iPad it will depend what software you're using; I don't use mine for navigation so I don't know. I would guess most probably don't have a dedicated MOB button, but may have a quick way to make a new waypoint at the current position.

In any case, I doubt it would occur to me to press an MOB button on my plotter. I'm going to be more concerned to get behind the helm (if not there already) to stop the boat; the main plotter is not reachable from the helm and the binnacle one is usually turned off. I'm mostly going to be working sails, steering, and engine; the DSC Distress is the limit of the button-pressing I'm likely to find time for. That does store the time and position; of course I'd need to transcribe the lat and long out of the radio's DSC log if I needed to use it, but that implies that I've completely lost touch with the MOB and have no idea which way to steer to find him, which is a situation I'd hope to avoid.

Pete

 

[lw395]

I don't see the point of chucking anything else over the side after the horseshoe/dhanbuoy/drogue/light set, unless you can get it much nearer to the casualty.
I am with ORC or RORC or whoever on this, the lifering must be instantly launchable from the helm position.

A dinghy is well handy for getting a person out of the water, I can get into our rubber boat in full dive kit.
In rough weather we'd use a 4;1 tackle on a halyard and a winch.

 

[Seajet]

A while ago I managed through sheer clumsiness to capsize my rigid tender beside the boat at the mooring.

Not too much trouble keeping check of my position, but it was a real sod getting back aboard even there with the help of a fit chum in the cockpit.

Low freeboard boat
Guardrail pelican hooks already undone
Was wearing a lifejacket - harness
Have a large carabiner on the bottom of the mainsheet for this

The mainsheet carabiner was extremely useful in latchin onto me, but the purchase went choc-a -block and my chum didn't know how to work sheet and topping lift to sort it.

I ended up unclipping and climbing over the pushpit using the folding step on the transom at water level; it was really difficult !

 

[Cloona]

getting aboard up transom short ladder after midsummer dip gave me a thought or three and over weight mate really had to max out all effort -

 

[ShinyShoe]

In answer to the questions re going below to MAYDAY - I'd suggest you all think again about the optimal location of your VHF so you can press Red and reach the mike without going below. - Either remote mike or mount radio in cockpit or reachable from cockpit.

I don't think a voice call should be necessary instantly. Instead I'd be doing:

Dan Buoy/Life ring (my MOB WILL have a LJ on as anyone on my deck/cockpit will).
If more than 1 person left on board 1 points at casualty
DSC Red Button (5 seconds). If pointer or a further spare person they can do the voice call. BUT pointer doesn't take eyes off for position.
Turn boat towards wind.
Reduce sail if appropriate*
Turn back under sail +/- engine if desired.*
*somewhere here voice call at least enough to say "Mayday Callsign - Mid Solent - Man over board standby for further" That means I'm struggling to do everything which means I may also struggle to recover casualty. So I really don't care what assets they are sending to help me. If I have lots of people and things are more "controlled" I can give more info but state that I am attempting to recover casualty. I suspect all the assets will still be launched. As soon as contact made with casualty I will update, as soon as recovered I will update again.

I don't throw things other than life ring. Dinghy attached to me much more likely to be useful for recovery (recover into dinghy and then to boat). I might change my stance if their LJ doesn't inflate!

I guess what I have issue with is the apparent message on here that your priority in a MOB situation is to make the Mayday call. It isn't. Your priority is to stop the boat.

Really?
A stopped boat 300m away from a casualty stops the boat and its crew coming to any harm. But in terms of risk that wasn't probably an immediate risk. 300m from casualty is pretty much unachievable in all but the mildest of conditions.

So the priority must be to (A) mark the casualty (B) get back to the casualty (C) recover the casualty.

A - done with MOB button on plotter and/or RED Button on DSC
B - the usual stuff but depending who's on board not easy
C - even with the best team on board may be hard

B & C are already having a second option through a DSC press. Instead you sail back, even if you are good and do that smoothly and are back alongside quickly and come to a neat stop how long does that take. More than 40seconds? Yes they hopefully have a LJ on. So now you need to get them back on board...

Sure, if once the boat is stopped and you can't recover the casualty from the water either because you lack the ability to navigate back to them, you lack the means to get them out of the water, or worse still you have lost them, then get on the radio for help.
I would suggest having help 40 seconds away is the exception to the rule... even in popular coastal waters it's going to be 10-15 minutes plus.

As the call that prompted the thread was heard in the Solent - lets assume the average sea temp for the Southampton is 12C. (http://www.seatemperature.org/europe/united-kingdom/southampton.htm). If you then refer to table 5 here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/otopdf/1995/oto95038.pdf you'll find that for conditions where you might expect a MOB - Force 3 and above - your expected survival time not in a dry suit is <30minutes. RNLI aim for an average Launch time of 10minutes (thats an average so there will be times it takes longer). But if you take 3 minutes to regain control of boat sail back & come to a stop alongside, and spend a couple of minutes trying to haul them in before realising this is going to be harder than you'd hoped and call for help. You now need the RNLI alongside and recovering your casualty within 15minutes of launch. While thats not impossible that means you must be within 8nm of the lifeboat station. Possible for the Solent. Tight for most of us!

Look at it this way. If someone was bleeding to death in front of you would you pick up the phone and call 999, or try and do something to stem the bleeding first?

Its probably a flawed analogy. Firstly if someone is bleeding to death an I'm next to them I can apply pressure or go for indirect pressure - I'll have the bleed under initial control in 15seconds or know I'm going to have issues. Death from a really major bleed is measurable in seconds. Death from a MOB with a LJ on is minutes as its hypothermia thats the issue rather than basic drowning. However for Cardiac Arrest (death kind of already present!) single person the call comes before the compressions, because you need extra help. I think the same case may very well apply to a MOB as recovery is probably going to be hard.

In a hospital where there is an emergency buzzer next to every bed - a major bleed would be emergency buzzer first, that gets you spare hands and if you are applying pressure you might well be struggling to reach the buzzer. Thats closest to hitting the red button on a boat...

 

[Triassic]

In answer to the questions re going below to MAYDAY - plus lots of suggestions, maths and other things....

Tell you what mate, you sail your boat and rely on others, I'll sail mine on rely on my crew. That way we'll both be happy. Freedom is after all one of the things we all enjoy so much about sailing.

 

[ShinyShoe]

Tell you what mate, you sail your boat and rely on others, I'll sail mine on rely on my crew. That way we'll both be happy. Freedom is after all one of the things we all enjoy so much about sailing.

Happy to. Clearly my number one aim is not to go for a swim in the first place. I hope if you do go for a swim your crew don't feel scared to summon help if they struggle to recover you because you'd rather they did it themselves. That has been the whole division in the camps on this thread - and IMHO which clearly you don't agree with, delaying calling for help no matter what the incident, is what risks putting lives in danger.

And returning to the original point of the thread this was someone MOB from a Cruise Ship and the OP was suggesting that it was an abuse of the "Mayday" system. While we all reverted to our own sailing situations and the discussion of do we mayday if there is a MOB and when - did anyone really think the ship should just have turned round and gone looking for the person by themselves? AFAIK the Ship didn't even know exactly where the MOB occurred.