3 "Mayday" calls today in the Solent/Isle of Wight

[chanelyacht]

W

I personally think the Mayday system is massively abused with just about every other call I hear about being a complete waste of our valuable emergency services, .

That's not my experience.

Don't forget that just because you call a mayday, I have to task assets as if it is a mayday. If you call mayday then explain you are aground on a sandbank with no imminent danger, not only am I not going to task a helo, I'm also going to ask you do downgrade the call. I also have no obligation to broadcast a mayday relay simply because you used the word.

Mayday does enforce radio silence from non-related calls, and other vessels do have an obligation to respond accordingly - but even that would be coordinated through CG and an appropriate level of response determined.

It is interesting that the leisure public use the word more though, one of the most serious incidents I've ever coordinated started with the immortal line "Coastie, I've a wee bittie problem" from a fishing boat we usually never heard from.

 

[prv]

the manouvre - reach tack reach - to get back to the casualty

On my boat the manoeuvre is furl jib - start engine - sheet main amidships

On the Dazed Kipper course, I crash-tacked and hove to within easy line-heaving distance of the "MOB", but of course that wasn't a fair test because I'd clocked the instructor sneaking towards the bucket and fender he'd previously stashed by the mast . He made me do it again and follow the "approved" manoeuvre.

Pete

 

[ShinyShoe]

Well, I'd still suggest that a MOB on a sunny day into warm water where you can recover them quickly and no injury sustained isn't going to be a Mayday, but that's probably one of the least likely times to get a MOB.

I can't argue with the concept that in certain circumstances you'll be confident that you can recover the casualty. But those are the conditions you'd doubt you will need to recover a MOB. You've presumably done drills. How often have you missed the MOB on first attempt? Have you tried it one man down? Have you tried it with bad conditions? You need in that first 5 seconds of the MOB to be making the assessment of whats the chances of this going horribly wrong. By getting the message out that a MOB is a Mayday unless you are confident its not means whoever is dealing with it doesn't have to think is this a Mayday, is it OK to hit the red button? Hit the button tell them you have a MOB and you are attempting self rescue. The causualty's life is in imminent danger UNTIL you have them back on board.

Taking on water - Mayday? Dunno - depends how quickly the water is coming in, how it's coming in and where the vessel is ...

Yip so we can't criticise someone who decides to hit the button.

Engine failure in clear water when the primary propulsion method is available (ie sails) or there's scope for anchoring - that isn't a Mayday - I can understand the initial panic and a call for assistance, but it's not a Mayday unless you're about to be without your boat - eg it sinks! Which doesn't generally happen with just an engine failure - not in clear water ...

If there is panic let it be a mayday and down grade it. I compare this to when I'm on the motorway and come across debris in the carriage way. Last time it was half a sofa, the time before some plastic 5 gallon drums and the time before that believe it or not it was a pop-up tent! Do these deserve a 999 call? The pop up tent was before the 101 number existed. It was on a three lane section of motorway travelling at 70mph in heavy traffic. Some cars drove over it. Others see an object 1m x 1m infront of them and swerve round it into another lane. Hitting it was safe (I tried it!) but understandable why others swerved it. Not safe to stop (no hard shoulder). So do you dial 999? I did. I felt it needed an immediate blue light response to prevent someone swerving into someone else.

The 5 gallon drums - 70MPH road again. By now 101 existed. again no easy place to stop so handsfree I 101'd it. Took ages to connect. Felt like cars behind me were probably in danger longer than they needed to. So last week for the Half a Sofa(!) I 999'd again, It took an astonishingly long time to be connected. I've made numerous 999 calls before due to my profession and never been passed to a call centre by the operator to be told my call is in a queue. Clearly it was unusual as the operator came back to me and said he would try another number. In-fact he tried 3 times to connect me and it took 3 mins 40 seconds! I suspect I wasn't the only one to call for this one! In fact I know I wasn't as the police told me they had the details and highways were on the way. If I'd 101'd it I'd have been assuming I'd have had a quicker response as my 101 call would have been queued too.

The rather long point I'm making here is that at no point has anyone ever suggested any of these calls was wrong. I may or may not have prevented an accidents, who will ever know.

When I did my RYA course - 1992 - we certainly weren't told to yell Mayday, just the manouvre - reach tack reach - to get back to the casualty; I do think more could have been made of how a small crew such as man & wife help each other back aboard, especially if it's hubby who is in the water.

I think that has been picked up on much more recently following issues recovering casualties. Cold Shock is also an issue. I suspect since DSC the concept of hitting red button has been pushed more. It gets you something close to a casualty position recorded. It gets people thinking about helping you. In pre DSC days you needed to assemble the message (yes I know you still need to give voice details but I think an initial holding message of "Mayday, Mayday this is NonSuch NonSuch, Man Overboard Mid Solent. Attempting to turn to recover. Standby CH16 for further." would be a damned good start while you make sure you have regained control etc

With a fully crewed handy boat, MOB should be just an unpleasant dunking;

Perhaps. But cold shock may be an issue. Loosing sight may be an issue. How many attempts to recover before you do hit the button.

As for the Solent MOB first mentioned wasn't it a passenger off a cruise liner ? He died.

Yip. Sadly. So no question thats a Mayday then?

Depends on circumstances - if I just missed my step and fell in whilst in Chichester Harbour with just SWMBO onboard then recovery is likely to be fairly swift and simple - it'd take more time to call the mayday than to pick me up - but then I can swim and have experience of swimming in the harbour.

You may want to test that! Including the ability to get back on board - clothed etc. Time needs to include getting you back in the boat. Plenty of people drown in harbours. I'm sure some can swim. but cold shock, injury etc affect that.
A mayday will get any fast power boat in the harbour interested (Harbour patrol. Rib etc)

I understand that with any sharp contact twix boom and human head then a Mayday should also be called even though a Pan Pan Medico was advised when I did my VHF course.

Pan Medico is a depreciated terminolgy now - no longer taught. No longer officially in existence but still understood. If its the left Twix its a Pan if its Right its mayday. In reality this one is always tricky how hard is sharp. I think people generally say any loss of consciousness or any other cause for concern - nausea, dizziness etc. If what you want is medical advice its a Mayday officially. However if you were happy to be effectively saying "I need medical advice, but I don't think I need it mega urgently" why should it not be a Pan. But if you are in the Solent in that scenario should you just head to the nearest safehaven instead if things aren't looking dodgy?

Why do we also need a rule for this, a rule for that. What happened to good old fashioned common sense? Just about every circumstance for a person going overboard is going to be different and certainly one rule/procedure isn't going to be the best for all of them is it? The problem with making rules is that if anybody does anything that is even remotely in variance with them they leave themselves wide open to the blame committee which invariably follows any incident these days.

But the problem with not making rules is people will say "Oh I didn't like to bother anyone, I didn't think loosing a leg was serious enough for a MayDay or I thought I should try and retrieve my MOB husband first before calling anyone, and I tried 3 times and then lost sight of him and spent 10 minutes searching before I thought right I definitely need some help."

If I go overboard on a boat I want whoever is on it to think MayDay - Shiny will kick my butt when he gets back on board if I haven't called Mayday rather than think... I'm a bit stuck but I don't think I can call Mayday - Shiny can swim afterall and he might kick my butt when he gets back on here - afterall he's never had the chance to press the red button...

I personally think the Mayday system is massively abused with just about every other call I hear about being a complete waste of our valuable emergency services, however I'm not on the boat involved and what may just be a minor challenge for me could be a crisis for another. It would be nice if we could somehow increase the level of competence and confidence amongst some sailors however that would probably only come about with further rules and legislation but that takes me back to where I started.....so probably best to leave alone.....

But if you Mayday you stand a good chance of having a visit from a CG crew when you come ashore. That may well give some driection, education and sign posting to courses etc. It may well say "I'm not sure your Mayday call for running out of chocolate on the Solent was justified sir" or it may say "Your mayday call for a MOB was entirely justified and we don't mind that you got your hubby back on the boat and cancelled it 2 minutes later madam".

I think the waste of valuable resources needs explained. I refer back to my 999 calls. They may not have been as life threatening as other 999 calls the same day. I expect the call handler to allocate resources appropriate to the call and the competing priorities. Can you provide an example of a Mayday that definitely resulted in wasted resources. Not a call that was a bit over stating the classification, but one that increased the resource allocation? If you Mayday in a sandbank grounding or call it in on 67 does it actually affect the emergency services resource allocation - other than for the first couple of minutes maybe while someone in Fareham et al has to decide is this something genuinely serious I doubt it makes any real difference.

 

[fireball]

Why do we also need a rule for this, a rule for that. What happened to good old fashioned common sense?

sorry poor choice of word - I meant more a guidance or individuals own "rule" - not something laid down by law ...

 

[fireball]

I'd normally quote the bits I was replying too, but it's a pain in a phone so I won't ...

Me and swmbo- I go overboard in chi harbour on a summers day because I've missed my footing - it'd take swmbo a few minutes to stop laughing - and boarding by the fixed stern swim ladder is easy in the calm waters of the harbour - shorts and t-shirt aren't restrictive and being primarily dinghy sailors we're quite used to getting wet...
If you've got guest crew onboard who aren't going to be competent then yes - press the red button... I'm not suggesting that a mob is never a mayday - just it isn't always - and a split second decision based on the circumstances isn't beyond the capability of most sailors ...
And yes - calling a mayday does use resources - even if it's just a bod on the end of the radio - so if you're confident you don't need it then I'd say don't call it - I'd be pretty pissed off falling in the water - worse if the lifeboat was launched when I could swim back to safety

 

[prv]

If you Mayday in a sandbank grounding or call it in on 67 does it actually affect the emergency services resource allocation - other than for the first couple of minutes maybe while someone in Fareham et al has to decide is this something genuinely serious

I did once hear a "Solent Mayday" which got a response from a ship in the Channel . I could just imagine the keen young Asian third officer sitting bolt upright at the sound of his first ever real Mayday, sending the slightly hesitant but textbook-correct acknowledgement, and getting ready to call the Captain and divert his ship to the rescue as the rules demand. Out in the real world of shipping, in mid-ocean, a Mayday call is a serious business and that's exactly the proper response.

Fortunately Solent Coastguard were quick to explain to him that a 10,000 ton container ship forty miles away was unlikely to be an appropriate rescue asset for a 25 foot yacht with a dicky outboard off Lymington . I think the yacht was reminded that he had an anchor, and towed in by a passing RIB shortly afterwards.

(On the MOB question, I tend to think that a presumption in favour of making the call is sensible. The time to refrain, perhaps, is when the person in the water personally asks you not to.)

Pete

 

[Triassic]

OK then, just as a matter of interest how many people on here who are advocating putting out a Mayday the moment someone goes overboard have the VHF set within reach of the helm? If you haven't then how many of you sail with just one other person on board?

On Triassic if I'm not singlehanded then I've almost always got only one crew. My standing instruction to them is that if I go over the side I want them to stay in the cockpit, sail the boat, and don't take their eyes off me. Their priority is to stop the boat and if possible turn it around (not always possible if we have the spinnaker up). If, and only if, they lose sight of me should they go below and get on the radio for help.

And yes, the first thing I do with a new crew is to practice a MOB. Those coming from monohulls are always surprised just how quickly you can sail a multihull backwards!

 

[prv]

OK then, just as a matter of interest how many people on here who are advocating putting out a Mayday the moment someone goes overboard have the VHF set within reach of the helm?

This do you?

Our previous boat had a tiller, so no handy binnacle for a remote handset. But with a tiller, you sit further forward in the cockpit, so I simply mounted the radio itself just inside the hatch where it was easy to reach while steering.

Whether it's routine or emergency, you generally want the radio at a time when you're also trying to do something else. Putting it miles away out of reach is a silly habit left over from when they were huge and fragile.

Pete

 

[Triassic]

..But with a tiller, you sit further forward in the cockpit, so I simply mounted the radio itself just inside the hatch where it was easy to reach while steering.

Whether it's routine or emergency, you generally want the radio at a time when you're also trying to do something else. Putting it miles away out of reach is a silly habit left over from when they were huge and fragile.

Pete

OK, so while you're reaching into the cabin, pressing the DSC button and then backing it up with the voice Mayday who is sailing the boat? Even in drills with the crew on the helm watching me throw the fenders over the side it was hard enough for them to stop the boat before we were 50m from them, and over 150m with the spinnaker up. The person best placed to help the MOB is the person on the boat they fell off and seconds will make all the difference for them where a couple of extra minutes on the Mayday is a drop in the ocean, no pun intended.

I do have a handheld for use entering port/marinas etc, but that's kept in the flip locker when at sea.

 

[Jamesuk]

Yes indeed, although a purist might suggest another channel meant for the purpose.

A purist ruined the ARC radio Net for sub 50ft in 2011: aka the fun police.

 

[Jamesuk]

OK then, just as a matter of interest how many people on here who are advocating putting out a Mayday the moment someone goes overboard have the VHF set within reach of the helm? If you haven't then how many of you sail with just one other person on board?

We send a Mayday, and have the Vhf in the cockpit too. You could have a hand held or a mobile phone.

Always send a mayday! I had that in training 8 years ago and a refresher more recently

 

[Seajet]

I'm surprised and not a little bothered by an apparent lack of common sense on this thread; then again we know sense is anything but common.

Surely it's bleeding obvious that someone taking a dip over the side in calm not freezing water, boat at rest ,and smartly recovered, if healthy that should be it, no need for a Mayday.

If hubby skipper goes over leaving inexperienced wife to steer & recover ( not being sexist that's just how it is usually ) - definite Mayday pronto.

On a different, sensible note, PRV originally I was taught ' gybe immediately ' which certainly works, but I agree the chances of braining someone and /or esclating the situation make reach tack reach a much better bet, as long as there's some wind but not too much.

Personally I'd be a bit wary of starting the engine if there's a casualty in the water, unless I felt I really had to.

 

[fireball]

OK, so while you're reaching into the cabin, pressing the DSC button and then backing it up with the voice Mayday who is sailing the boat?

If the MOB requires a mayday (and I'd consider now singlehanded with kite up a good candidate) then press the red button ... then possibly delay the followup voice call - or a simple, "Mayday Mayday Mayday Man Overboard" before setting about stopping the boat.

Like PRV we had a cockpit VHF control unit - rarely used the fixed unit down below - instructions to newbies were "in case of an emergency when I'm incapacitated, press and hold the red button"

 

[fireball]

I'm surprised and not a little bothered by an apparent lack of common sense on this thread; then again we know sense is anything but common.

Surely it's bleeding obvious that someone taking a dip over the side in calm not freezing water, boat at rest ,and smartly recovered, if healthy that should be it, no need for a Mayday.

If hubby skipper goes over leaving inexperienced wife to steer & recover ( not being sexist that's just how it is usually ) - definite Mayday pronto.

On a different, sensible note, PRV originally I was taught ' gybe immediately ' which certainly works, but I agree the chances of braining someone and /or esclating the situation make reach tack reach a much better bet, as long as there's some wind but not too much.

Personally I'd be a bit wary of starting the engine if there's a casualty in the water, unless I felt I really had to.

thank you ... another voice with some Common Sense ...

I did rescue some swimmers with our Jen SO30 - didn't worry about the engine/prop as it is so far under the boat it's hard to reach - more so with our Bav37 - but yes, always be warey of moving props!

 

[mm42]

A little warning for those thinking a quick dip isn't at all dangerous. I am Lead Coxswain of York Rescue Boat, founded last year after 4 deaths in the rivers of York. We had a rescue a fortnight ago, a drunk guy dived into the river, fully clothed, from a bridge. By the time we got to him, around 40 seconds after he hit the water (we were on standby a couple of hundred meters away and saw him go in) he'd given up swimming due to the cold and was sinking under the surface. In 40 seconds.

The effects of a sudden immersion in cold water (it was 11 degrees that day and has dropped to 9 degrees this week) can't be underestimated. You could be a really strong swimmer, but if your body is shutting around you that's not going to help.

 

[JumbleDuck]

On a different, sensible note, PRV originally I was taught ' gybe immediately ' ...

"When there's a man overboard, always gybe"

- from "We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea"​

 

[JumbleDuck]

The effects of a sudden immersion in cold water (it was 11 degrees that day and has dropped to 9 degrees this week) can't be underestimated. You could be a really strong swimmer, but if your body is shutting around you that's not going to help.

I organise a New Year's Day Loony Dook. We are very careful, for just these reasons.

 

[fireball]

A little warning for those thinking a quick dip isn't at all dangerous.
a drunk guy dived into the river, fully clothed, from a bridge.
The effects of a sudden immersion in cold water (it was 11 degrees that day and has dropped to 9 degrees this week) can't be underestimated. You could be a really strong swimmer, but if your body is shutting around you that's not going to help.

appreciated ... but not quite the situation I was describing ....

Drunk and into cold water isn't good ...

Sober and into warmer water (even if it is a bit unexpected) is more likely to be fine - I've had enough dunkings over the years (from a racing dinghy) to know ...

 

[Triassic]

I guess what I have issue with is the apparent message on here that your priority in a MOB situation is to make the Mayday call. It isn't. Your priority is to stop the boat. Sure, if once the boat is stopped and you can't recover the casualty from the water either because you lack the ability to navigate back to them, you lack the means to get them out of the water, or worse still you have lost them, then get on the radio for help. I would suggest having help 40 seconds away is the exception to the rule... even in popular coastal waters it's going to be 10-15 minutes plus.

Look at it this way. If someone was bleeding to death in front of you would you pick up the phone and call 999, or try and do something to stem the bleeding first?

 

[fireball]

I guess what I have issue with is the apparent message on here that your priority in a MOB situation is to make the Mayday call. It isn't. Your priority is to stop the boat. Sure, if once the boat is stopped and you can't recover the casualty from the water either because you lack the ability to navigate back to them, you lack the means to get them out of the water, or worse still you have lost them, then get on the radio for help. I would suggest having help 40 seconds away is the exception to the rule... even in popular coastal waters it's going to be 10-15 minutes plus.

Look at it this way. If someone was bleeding to death in front of you would you pick up the phone and call 999, or try and do something to stem the bleeding first?

Rather depends on circumstances I would've thought ....

Pressing that red button if it's to hand - takes 10 seconds (5 seconds to get to it, 5 seconds to press and hold) - once you've done that then a voice MOB can come later - but the closest position to the MOB is recorded. If you're going to have to go below decks and spend a minute or two placing a mayday call then perhaps that is time wasted.
Other options for recording the position are the MOB button found on many chartplotters - but whatever you do, you need to get back to where the MOB went over in order to find them.
The thing with stopping the boat first is that will take time - possibly 5-10 minutes if you've got all the sails up .. that's 5-10 minutes that emergency services could be using to get to the MOB position ... if stopping the boat is knocking the enigne out of gear then yup - let's see if we can recover the MOB first - unless it looks like they're in trouble (wound, extreme cold, unconcious) - then that little red button gets it ...