3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happen?

Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

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1 . For the record ....so your stated facts are wrong.

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Not my facts - I just linked to the Viking Information - not my fault if they have two different websites with different information on - hope they take better care with their raft contents!

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I have two of them.

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...and there's the rub, this will keep going until we all agree you made the only sensible choice and anyone with a "lesser" raft is doomed to die in a flat calm.

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I went to the web site and see that they have not updated it for years so they are responsible for giving out this misleading information and I can understand where you got the duff info from.

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See, wasn't my facts at all - glad to see you acknowledge it, again I hope they take better care with the rafts - after all the site I linked to is referred to on the viking-yachting site as their "main site" /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif and seems full of out of date info!!!! Even the yachting site is copyright 2002....
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

If you read my response I clearly stated that the facts were wrong - a true fact then went on to say it was because of the out of date info on the web site and not your fault - so I do not understand why you made any pijt here.

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...and there's the rub, this will keep going until we all agree you made the only sensible choice and anyone with a "lesser" raft is doomed to die in a flat calm.


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Never have written anything like that but have written that it ups to the individual - just wanted to make them aware of the choice. Only examples I have given have been in roughish cold seas where jumping into water etc is dangerous - so you, as usual, are creating your own arguments, does not even need me to comment. Invent your own point and then harp on about it.
The only reason I stated I had two was to prove to you that they do exist. I actually agreed that your incorrect facts were not your fault and even restated that point in a later post .... but carry on, invent points - then you can argue, Far better than actually dealing with the common sense issues raised by me and the need to avoid jumping into the water.

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See, wasn't my facts at all - glad to see you acknowledge

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As stated above I actually did state that it was not your fault!

What is your fault is that you cannot deal with the issues here - you always fall back onto general snidy remarks rather than even try to answer the points about hypothermic shock, avoiding jumping into the water etc.

All it needs is for me to take a stand on the actual issue and bang - we get a 100 plus post but the posts are not actually dealing with the issue raised . ... truly incredible.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

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Fisherman
I am not sure what you are claiming here but it sounds very much like you are claiming that it should not be difficult, if trained, to right an upside down life raft from a boat in real sea conditions ....... !!!!!!!!

You are also stating that you are not trained to do this and that the training did not cover it but think it should be fairly easy.

I am lost for words with that .... in practice the raft can be getting bashed against the side of the boat, the boat can be rising up above the raft only to come down onto it .... the wind can be causing all sorts of problems ...... Simply managing to get into the raft from the boat can be a major problem.
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I use words like 'should' and 'may', because I am trying to suggest rather than assert. I am 100% confident that I can right my raft from the deck of my boat in a very few seconds, in fact I can inflate it on the deck if necessary. This may not work for others, you might run the risk of dropping the raft base onto the stanchions as it comes over, hence my reticence. I suggest that if my raft is getting beaten up alongside, then so is yours.
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If I could arrange it and paid for the raft to be inflated etc would you be willing to come out in say an f7 with me and be filmed trying to do this? It really would make an interesting video!!
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Hello? Are we talking safe practice here? Earlier in the thread you dismissed such a suggestion as too dangerous.

Let me make some assertions now, that I think are very important as part of an all-round approach to safety.

Wear an auto lifejacket all the time. We do.
Train your crew to be able to get you back if you go over.
Have a laminated distress call script by the radio: in a panic even you may forget something, or someone else might have to do it.
Make sure one of your radios is connected direct to the battery(save for the in line fuse).
Clean the in line fuse regularly.
Have your service battery well up out of the bilge.
Install a bilge alarm.

These are only minimal, and I'm sure that if you use your imagination you can think of other hazards that need addressing.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Fisherman

I do not understand where you are coming from, I stated that in arranging a video I might be had up for manslaughter - I know its dangerous ... that is my point.

Jumping into the water to right a raft is dangerous and depending on the sea conditions is often impossible so , if possible, should be avoided.... that is what I am clearly asserting. I am not saying 'might be', not fogging the issue - just stating it as it is - do you disagree with that?

"I am 100% confident that I can right my raft from the deck of my boat in a very few seconds, in fact I can inflate it on the deck if necessary."

Many could not do that and it would be dangerous for them to do it - its against all practice and advise - and even then you cannot guarantee getting the raft onto the water the right way up - it could easily be caught by the wind and turned in putting it on the sea - all depending on sea conditions.

All I am stating is that a self righting raft is safer than a non-self righting one - something I thought was common sense and that its not always possible to right a raft as that depends on sea conditions.

I just watched a documentary on TV - dropping folks into cold water - within a minute their hands are useless - with ten minutes they can be dead - instantly they hit the water they go into shock ....... its no laughing matter to go into the sea to right a raft - do you agree that if possible that should be avoided?

I also think that survival training is important as is learning how to right a raft should the occasion arise that you need to .... all these points I have stated again and again in this thread.

What I do not like is anyone anywhere giving the impression that righting a raft is a straight forward matter - in many circumstances it could kill.

Nor should anyone suggest that the best place to inflate a raft is on board - I can imagine a dozen dangerous incidents that could arise out of that ....... so where are you coming from? Tell me exactly what I have stated that you disagree with.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Already agreed with you quote: 'absolutely' in a previous post. Yes , stay out of the water at all costs.
Not everyone is able to rush out and get, or change to, a Viking, which seems to be the only self-righter, so will be stuck with ?whatever?
Your opinions are not necessarily wrong, at the same time they are not the only opinions.
For instance, there are some who would be uneasy at what looks like flexible-mounted inboard stern tube bearings in your new boat. If they are as I think, you are floating on those pipes and jubilee clips, with no means of turning the water off in case of a fault or rupture. That is not my opinion, but I had it pointed out to me when I installed one.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

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Already agreed with you quote: 'absolutely' in a previous post. Yes , stay out of the water at all costs.

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Then if you agree what is upsetting you?

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Not everyone is able to rush out and get, or change to, a Viking, which seems to be the only self-righter, so will be stuck with ?whatever?


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I fully appreciate that is a fact - but it is not connected with what I am saying. Just because someone can or cannot afford it does not mean they should be aware of it and if they think its right then sacrifice something else and go with it or choose not to spend the money - its their choice. Affordability does not change it being a desirable safety factor. The cost is about £200 to £300 spread over ten years or more.

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Your opinions are not necessarily wrong, at the same time they are not the only opinions.

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Well that must be fact but so what? I think you seem to be not liking the firm way I put my opinion on this matter - but me drawing attention to the self righting issue and pointing out the danger of getting into the water is all I have done. I also think that my opinion that a self righting raft is safer than a non-self righting raft is a correct opinion and so far it seems everyone has agreed ....... so again ... what are you driving at?

"For instance, there are some who would be uneasy at what looks like flexible-mounted inboard stern tube bearings in your new boat. If they are as I think, you are floating on those pipes and jubilee clips, with no means of turning the water off in case of a fault or rupture. That is not my opinion, but I had it pointed out to me when I installed one. "

But I would welcome comments like that. I do not think you are correct with your guess as I understand it but if there was any safety matter to be discussed about the Heyland units, I would welcome it and if it turned out I cocked it up I would welcome that too - I would rather know I had made a mistake than live in blissful ignorance!!! So please expand on your ideas on it with a new thread - it could prove beneficial to all.

What is important is which idea is best, what is right - who is right is secondary to me and I think you not appreciating that is the basis for you being so upset. Its frustrating for me because all I am doing is expressing a simple opinion and then you and others are assuming things that I have not written. Whereas I honestly think the initial comments about it being a simple thing to right a raft were not true in the real world and misleadingly dangerous because they ignored the danger of getting into the water.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

I'll post on here, no-one else is reading it anyway. The diagram does not show what I refer to. It looks like you have or had flexibly mounted engines. The rubber tube is jubilee clipped to the stern tube, and to the inboard gland which is therefore able to move. As your engines vibrate the shaft movement is accomodated by the rubber tube. Now you have gone over to Aquadrive, which accomodates movement in itself, the thrust bearing presumably holds the shaft firmly, so the flexi gland is redundant. I would have replaced it with a normal gland, screwed to the stern tube. As it is the movement in the inboard gland is no longer required, so the tube will not be flexing, and is unlikely to rupture. However, the sea is on the inside of that rubber tube, and you are floating on those jubilee clips.
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

Thank you very much - I am having the issue checked and if what you say is true - I would have it changed and owe you a pint into the process!
 
Re: 3 Drowned, 1 Survived clinging to hull all night, How does it happ

All I would do is change the clips to much higher quality ones, preferably those with a bolt and two round bushes, rather than a screw. Then just keep a regular eye on things.
 
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