PCUK
Well-Known Member
2014 D40. (My '07 was scrapped by Nissan) Uprated tow bar and some paperwork. Total cost £320 plus tow bar at £116.
3.5 tonne towing question
- Thread starter Mr T
- Start date
2014 D40. (My '07 was scrapped by Nissan) Uprated tow bar and some paperwork. Total cost £320 plus tow bar at £116.
jimmy_the_builder
Well-Known Member
Wow (about the scrapping) - was that the chassis corrosion issue? Mine is also an 07, although v low miles (43k). That cost to replate sounds like good value to me.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Jimmy, be careful with this. It is not as easy as replating. An Approval Authority has to approve! never likely to be a legal issue, more of an insurance one. If someone biffs you, and the vehicle is not legal, they won't pay out!
Boat2016
Well-Known Member
If it’s that easy I would have thought the manufacturers would supply at that rating from new.
How is the tow weight determined ? it seems all manufacturers have different ratings for very similar vehicles.
How is the tow weight determined ? it seems all manufacturers have different ratings for very similar vehicles.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Determined by the vehicle manufacturer, after lots of simulation and test, then approved for Eu by a TA Authority. Key issues will be transmission strength, braking capacity, and vehicle dynamic stability.
CLB
Well-Known Member
I wonder how they change and upgrade these for £320?
Boat2016
Well-Known Member
Thanks, that all makes sense and doesn’t sound like anything that would be easily updated
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Clearly they don't!
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Nope. Sounds like someone is selling snake oil!
dunedin
Well-Known Member
.... yes and probably invalidating the insurance so not legal on the road
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Unless of course the vehicle is already rated higher and down-rated because of a limitation such as the towbar fitting.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
The Whole Vehicle Approval will include all the STU's (inc stuff like lights/brakes/belts/towbars), you cannot change an STU and consequently change the WV Approval, unless you resubmit for a new WV Approval. You won't get that for £320.
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rafiki_
Well-Known Member
My last word on this as I have lost the will to live. SVTech mentions DVSA. DVSA is not responsible for Type Approval, in the UK that is VCA. DVSA is responsible for driver training, and in-service testing, like MoT tests, and HGV/PSV annual testing. They have a part to play in SVA's, but VCA is the Approval Authority. As I said earlier, I doubt if there would be any legal comeback for changing the plating, as it is not really policed. it is the insurers who will play a part, if ever a vehicle is involved in an incident. Is this a risk you are willing to take?
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I think there's some confusion - they are not offering new Type Approval - they are offering uprating which is a completely different and quite legal thing according to them and the DVLA.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Skimming the links I suspect they do a sample “ conversion “ of a base modal then seek the approval from the DVSC , pay what ever ( says max around £1750 anyhow )
Once they have done that subsequent same convertions are just a paper exercise from them .
Regarding recovery of the initial development costs inc the DVSC one off fee - that’s just simple business maths .
Ie if projected sales is 10 then dived the DVSC fee by 10 - pass that on to the punter .
I don,t pick up on changing type approval from the TUV folks - for the base / doner modals that they get in - they are just vehicle modders using the mechanism open to them .
Having said that re Rafiki,s drawing to attention about insurance problems - cocking off a claim if I understood what he suggested?
Again from experience just inform them there’s normally ( even on line that’s days ) a section on the proposal to inform the ins Co about mods .
When the quote comes back any mods are there black n White written on the policy .
“ check the vehicle deatails are correct “ or words to that effect .
So from the off while shopping / filling proposals in get the movement from 2800 ( or whatever ) to 3500 Kgs in @ the start .
Rarther than an accessor find out after the event if you need to make a claim .
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TRH
Well-Known Member
Remember it's the weight of the trailer plus the boat weight that must not exceed 3,500 kgs
mucklestone
Well-Known Member
Just to give some background I worked at a trailer hire and repair centre for years. We had loads of people picking up trailers who returned late because their vehicles let them down.
A few tips I would give when selecting a vehicle is to look at the max nose weight the tow ball can take and try to assess how tough the rear suspension is. The more nose weight the trailer has the more stable it will be to tow. (which is why the wheels are right at the back on trucks!) The heavier the trailer the more nose weight required to keep it stable.
Some vehicles are rated to tow 3500kg but can't handle much noseweight so when towing the combo tends to be unstable. The pick ups do tend to be good from this point of view
Personally I don't like to talk about other peoples vehicles that they have paid good hard money for, but I have grave concerns over the safety of the nissan nirvara. The engine failures (crankshafts) and gearbox failures (final drive, main bearings, input shafts) are bad enough but once you have seen the cracked chassis on a relatively new vehicle you will start to worry. I say for no other reason than for your own families safety, you need to regulary check the chassis for cracks. Don't wait for the mot to do it for you. If that fails whilst towing God help everyone nearby. Fortunately, the one I saw only sheered on the one side and stayed in one piece. However a lot of people keep an older 4x4 for towing so I guess the same applies to other vehicles?
My money goes on the land rovers. Still had loads of problems with them, but things like electric handbrakes stuck on or electrical issues that arn't safety related. The gearbox, engine and suspensions are pretty tough. The main reason i recomend them for heavy trailers though is for the low ratio box. Most pickups and other 4x4s don't have the centre diff so you can't engage low range unless you are on a low traction surface. With the land rovers you can engage low range when manoeuvring and really park trailers accurately. A 3500kg trailer will add a lot of clutch wear without a low range box....
A few tips I would give when selecting a vehicle is to look at the max nose weight the tow ball can take and try to assess how tough the rear suspension is. The more nose weight the trailer has the more stable it will be to tow. (which is why the wheels are right at the back on trucks!) The heavier the trailer the more nose weight required to keep it stable.
Some vehicles are rated to tow 3500kg but can't handle much noseweight so when towing the combo tends to be unstable. The pick ups do tend to be good from this point of view
Personally I don't like to talk about other peoples vehicles that they have paid good hard money for, but I have grave concerns over the safety of the nissan nirvara. The engine failures (crankshafts) and gearbox failures (final drive, main bearings, input shafts) are bad enough but once you have seen the cracked chassis on a relatively new vehicle you will start to worry. I say for no other reason than for your own families safety, you need to regulary check the chassis for cracks. Don't wait for the mot to do it for you. If that fails whilst towing God help everyone nearby. Fortunately, the one I saw only sheered on the one side and stayed in one piece. However a lot of people keep an older 4x4 for towing so I guess the same applies to other vehicles?
My money goes on the land rovers. Still had loads of problems with them, but things like electric handbrakes stuck on or electrical issues that arn't safety related. The gearbox, engine and suspensions are pretty tough. The main reason i recomend them for heavy trailers though is for the low ratio box. Most pickups and other 4x4s don't have the centre diff so you can't engage low range unless you are on a low traction surface. With the land rovers you can engage low range when manoeuvring and really park trailers accurately. A 3500kg trailer will add a lot of clutch wear without a low range box....
cstewart37
Active Member
Well the Nissan Navara has had a bashing over the years ! We have had 4 of them with no problem at all, bar a new clutch & flywheel on our 55 plate which we towed a Rib with a weight of over 3 ton light load from central Scotland to west & east Scotland. Nissan have been very good at fixing any problems that they have had, like a quality steel supplier that let them down badly!
You hear nothing but horror stories about Landrovers & Rangrovers, like never run one without a warranty!
Defenders overpriced basic farm transport.
Discovery - 1 year old with 2 years warranty £61k
Nissan Navara NEW 19k + vat C/W 5 year a fully backed Nissan warranty – Do the maths !!!
To tow a 3 ton boat it is more to do with getting the best of trailers & getting them setup right to the 4x4 that you are using.
You hear nothing but horror stories about Landrovers & Rangrovers, like never run one without a warranty!
Defenders overpriced basic farm transport.
Discovery - 1 year old with 2 years warranty £61k
Nissan Navara NEW 19k + vat C/W 5 year a fully backed Nissan warranty – Do the maths !!!
To tow a 3 ton boat it is more to do with getting the best of trailers & getting them setup right to the 4x4 that you are using.
mucklestone
Well-Known Member
I don't like vehicle bashing, ALL vehicles have their problems whatever people say. I'd certainly agree Land Rovers are costly to maintain, but we weren't talking prices just what is good for towing. Many of the problems with modern vehivles are made worse or brought on by heavy loads. Now we have gone 6 speed most of them have weak gearboxes - more gears in a box but pretty much the same external size... Land rovers have their problems but towing is unlikely to make them worse...
With regard to the nirvana, whilst poor steel was a blamed, when you take the rear tub off, you will see it is just poor design. Right where the chassis needs to be strongest it goes thin. This is a design similar on most pickups, but you will see ford and toyota both stiffen yhe chassis at that point. I haven't seen others....
If we are talking money, a pickup is hard to beat, but if we are talking what is best for towing, it's not so clear cut. If nothing else the low range box on the landys make all the difference.
I think you raised an excellent point on the trailers as well. Getting them setup (and loaded) right makes a huge difference, something a lot of people overlook....
With regard to the nirvana, whilst poor steel was a blamed, when you take the rear tub off, you will see it is just poor design. Right where the chassis needs to be strongest it goes thin. This is a design similar on most pickups, but you will see ford and toyota both stiffen yhe chassis at that point. I haven't seen others....
If we are talking money, a pickup is hard to beat, but if we are talking what is best for towing, it's not so clear cut. If nothing else the low range box on the landys make all the difference.
I think you raised an excellent point on the trailers as well. Getting them setup (and loaded) right makes a huge difference, something a lot of people overlook....