2nd Hand Yachts

[DKnight]

Yet another weekend spent looking around boat yards, and all the boats described as "excellent", "good" or "clean condition" - can only be described as rubbish. If its not the Brokers checking the boats out properly then its the owners not maintaining their boats and still expecting top dollar prices.

It is almost enough to make me consider buying new, all for a similar price, without the smelly heads, damp, crappy varnish work, knackered engines, new rigging required and very tired sails - all for £55K!!!!

Speaking to other people also looking they were as disgusted and disillusioned as me!

HOW CAN A TIRED 12 YEAR OLD BOAT, EVEN OF "QUALITY" BUILD BE WORTH THE SAME AS A NEW BOAT, OF EQUAL SIZE AND WITH A LLOYDS CERTIFICATE!

Surely by asking silly prices for 2nd hand boats, is it just helping the profits of those manufacturers who are prepared to install modern manufacturing techniques and use modern materials.

Who has actually said that these boats are lesser than that of their elder cousins?

May be its time for us boat owners, to realise the real value of their boats, and that when there is a dramatic fall in the cost of new, (as we have seen in the last few years), then it must be reflected in the 2nd hand market.

Forget the arguement that 2nd hand comes with all the "Gear", the previous owner has put on. - What value has a 12yr old radar when new is relatively cheap and of such superior quality.

One of the boats I viewed was taken in as part exchang by a manufacturer, only to have all the "gear" removed including, Radar, GPS/Plotter, Spinnaker & pole, Boat Hook, fenders, warps etc. etc.. Leaving only a 12 year old hull, with 12year old rigging & sails (all in need of replacing) and of cause a 12 year old engine with 12 years worth of wear and corosion.

To put this £57K boat back to good -usable condition ( and insurable, after speaking to my insurers) would cost £8K. Therefore I consider my offer of £48.5K to be resonable! (Also taking into account he did not have to pay his own £4K brokerage fee!)

I may just be joining the band of happy yachties who do not have to spend every spare day doing maintenance on their boats, by buying new at the boat show.

COME ON - GET REAL- KNACKERED BOATS ONLY DISERVE A VALUE THAT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION THE TRUE COST OF PUTTING IT RIGHT.

May be this subject deserves a forum of its own!

What do you think!!!!

DK

 

[tony_brighton]

Totally agree. We did the same equation and bought new just last year.

I'm always amazed to see the same boats on the brokerages for years at a time. When are these owners going to wake up and smell the coffee; if you are going to spend £55k then you probably aren't going to fit the blind millionaire mould.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Someone\'s started a very similar thread on R2R

That posting makes the same points you do here - and a number of responses have been posted

 

[Eudorajab]

Hate to jolt you back to the real world, but im afraid that in my experience, new or secondhand, a boat requires constant maintenance.

Maybe the reason you are so disgruntled with seconhand viewings is that a lot of other owners had the same thoughts as you. i.e that if they buy a new boat the amount and level of maintenance would be less.

Just a last thought, when does a new boat become old ?

Good luck in your quest and happy sailing

 

[tony_brighton]

Re: Someone\'s started a very similar thread on R2R

thanks for that - thought i'd mis-placed my posting!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Rewhat type are you looking for?

If you are looking for a modern lightweight solent sailor, then I agree - what is the point of buying an older boat.

If you are looking for a blue water boat, then I seggest that the average B******8 will have a short life span of say 12 years in that environment.

There are some good ones second hand boats around, but the whole market for the good boats has been totally screwed up by those who lie about their own boats quality. Yes and the brokerages have a lot to answer for.

So saying there are one or 2 quality brokers around, who specialise in only certain low volume boats, I know one who certainly deserves his commission.

 

[Mirelle]

I agree that owners asking prices for secondhand boats are often the product of wishful thinking. One seldom sees a boat whose owners leave her smartly turned out and spotlessly clean in the hands of the broker, although this would certainly help to sell her. Boats are usually overpriced; they hang on the market for months, getting tired, then they are sold for a fire sale price after moths without maintenance at which point they may have half their inventory pinched by the seller after inspection.

Don't blame the brokers, blame the owners - our fellow yachties!

Of course, since I own a boat which is so old that she stopped depreciating some decades ago, and I have owned her for so long that I cannot blame anyone else for her condition, all this is happily academic to me.

 

[romany123]

Bought a second hand Westerly conway 6 years ago....no regrets wouldent swap it for the world. I couldent have bought new and got the same class of boat. I agree that a lot of owners dont present their boats at there best but hey offer them what they are worth to you.
Dave


Dave

 

[andrewg]

I must admit I felt the same last year and the year before , trawling round brokerages...until I came across a beautiful old sparkman & stephens at a reasonable price. I'ts a fantastic boat and I am very pleased with it. Admittedly, there's quite a bit of work to do, but I could never have afforded a new boat of similar quality in a month of Sundays. There are good second-hand buys out there, but not many.

 

[Guest]

Last year I sent a detailed report to both Yachting Monthly and Yachting World about my experiences with brokers in my search for a 2nd hand yacht. Four different brokers in UK and Europe had either concealed, failed to divulge or failed to look into serious problems with yachts they were selling. One instance alone cost me over £2000 in wasted travelling expenses and surveyor's fees before I discovered the boat was not at all what it was portrayed to be.

Neither magazine to date has been prepared to publish my experiences to warn others so we have four unscrupulous or incompetent brokers continuing to ply their trade and a media, which purports to be there for the benefit of its readers, failing to give any coverage to the story. Why are they so reluctant?

Anyone interested in my experiences should email me at lee@travelcontacts.com when I will happily send you a fully detailed report of my experiences. It make interesting reading!

 

[Guest]

Libel laws

Speaking now as a journalist, (a common-or-garden one, not a boating one, and completely unconnected with YBW), I would say that this sort of story is so fraught with legal difficulties that it is very nearly unprintable.

It doesn't necessarily mean that people weren't interested in your story, just that I suspect the lawyers would never have let it through. Sadly, the response is generally not to touch such stories with a bargepole, even if there is an important issue there, because of our restrictive libel laws.

The tricky bit here is that one definition of a libel is 'denigrating someone in their trade or profession', which means the brokers could try to make a case against you and any publication using your information if they thought they could claim you had made untrue (or unprovable) allegations. Individual journalists can be sued as well as the publications they work for. And something can be as true as ever you like, but you'd better have proof that will stand up in court... This is the background against which your information would have been judged.

As for your offer to forward it to interested parties, I've been arguing with myself for some time now over whether you are laying yourself open to a potential libel writ (I don't seriously think you are for a minute, but it's an interesting exercise).

One test is whether or not the material is actually potentially libellous, which I can't judge because I haven't seen it. The next is whether you have 'published' it. To give an insight about how silly the laws get, I believe a letter between two people in a sealed envelope is exempt as it is obviously a private communication. But a third party can read a postcard... Something on radio, telly and most definitely the web is deemed to have been published in the same way as something in print.

Offering to forward something to a private email address is obviously fine, because that's clearly intended as a private communication. What is interesting is whether publicising that offer on a public website is tantamount to 'publishing' or not.

This is just meant to give you a bit of food for thought about some of the issues involved - hope it's helpful. Are there any lawyers out there with a view on the latter problem? Or indeed, Mr Hollamby?

Necessary disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, just someone who has spent in excess of 10 years grappling with this stuff in daily working life. Properly-trained journalists (believe it or not, there's a fairly rigorous training) are expected to pass at least two law exams before they start work and another one when they have two years' experience under their belts.