20kg Rocha or 60lb CQR?

The reliability of anchors has changed as technology moves onwards. I doubt that many sailors of yachts would use a heavy stone tied to a hemp rope to keep their yacht anchored to the seabed. Similarly many do not use a fisherman as their bower, or even as their kedge these days. The CQR is early last century's technology and is a less effective design when compared to so called new generation anchors.

Just to show I am not biased here is video of a CQR setting well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_2MJsNruAA
And a video of so called new generation anchors setting well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59f-OjWoq0
 
NormanS said:
Rocnas are much more fashionable.:rolleyes:
Haven't you heard that CQRs don't work any more? :D
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But you have to use a Rocna at least as big as your CQR and use an anchorwatch system or they don't work.

I would never buy a Rocna new, since I will never put a penny in the pockets of the loathsome child who used to promote them here, but if it's already bought and works (and isn't one of the Chinese ones made of camembert) it's probably work keeping over a much heavier CQR.
 
JumbleDuck said:
But you have to use a Rocna at least as big as your CQR and use an anchorwatch system or they don't work.

I would never buy a Rocna new, since I will never put a penny in the pockets of the loathsome child who used to promote them here, but if it's already bought and works (and isn't one of the Chinese ones made of camembert) it's probably work keeping over a much heavier CQR.
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Eh? That doesn't make sense...
First you say you need a Rocna the same weight or heavier than a CQR.
Then you say it is worth keeping vs a heavier CQR.

If you can post without pettiness what do you mean, exactly?
 
A1Sailor said:
Eh? That doesn't make sense...
First you say you need a Rocna the same weight or heavier than a CQR.
Then you say it is worth keeping vs a heavier CQR.

If you can post without pettiness what do you mean, exactly?
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. My first sentence was sardonically intended.

People who sing the praises of NG anchors almost invariably have bought them just as heavy, or even heavier, than the ones they replace. That only makes sense if holding is a problem, but the reason generally given for making the change is faster setting. Furthermore, people with NG anchors all seem (huuuuge generalisation there) to have so little faith in them that they use anchor watch systems as well.

In general, a Knox, Manson, Spade or even a Rocna ought to make a very good replacement for a CQR of at least twice the weight; faster setting and still significantly better holding. So if the OP has a big CQR and a smaller Rocna, the latter should work fine.

"Petty", by the way, is making public statements about the irrelevant private affairs of the MD of a rival anchor company in order to discredit their product.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. My first sentence was sardonically intended.

People who sing the praises of NG anchors almost invariably have bought them just as heavy, or even heavier, than the ones they replace. That only makes sense if holding is a problem, but the reason generally given for making the change is faster setting. Furthermore, people with NG anchors all seem (huuuuge generalisation there) to have so little faith in them that they use anchor watch systems as well.

In general, a Knox, Manson, Spade or even a Rocna ought to make a very good replacement for a CQR of at least twice the weight; faster setting and still significantly better holding. So if the OP has a big CQR and a smaller Rocna, the latter should work fine.

"Petty", by the way, is making public statements about the irrelevant private affairs of the MD of a rival anchor company in order to discredit their product.
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Thanks. I guess you have an unpleasant petty vindictive streak.
 
Sandy said:
Doing the maths that is a 20kg Rocha or a 27.21kg CQR

About a 25% saving in anchor mass at the front of the boat.

I will be replacing my Bruce anchor with a Knox.
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Also easier to retrieve the anchor back onto the foredeck or into the anchor well, for those who dislike leaving it stored projecting over the bow.
 
I never had a problem with a CQR and carried a Fortress to use as a second anchor when a gale was forecast. We anchored hundreds of times when were away for six and a half years. The only issue in the Caribbean is dead coral under the sand, you will find it in English Harbour, Jost van Dyke, Union island and others.
 
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BlowingOldBoots said:
The reliability of anchors has changed as technology moves onwards. I doubt that many sailors of yachts would use a heavy stone tied to a hemp rope to keep their yacht anchored to the seabed. Similarly many do not use a fisherman as their bower, or even as their kedge these days. The CQR is early last century's technology and is a less effective design when compared to so called new generation anchors.
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My boat spends most of her time afloat anchored to a circular steel disk. Which weighs a tonne, showing that every type of anchor works well if it's big enough.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. My first sentence was sardonically intended.

People who sing the praises of NG anchors almost invariably have bought them just as heavy, or even heavier, than the ones they replace.

Furthermore, people with NG anchors all seem (huuuuge generalisation there) to have so little faith in them that they use anchor watch systems as well.
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Can you provide any evidence to support these statements?
 
Pye_End said:
Can you provide any evidence to support these statements?
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It's been discussed as a theme before. Generally people seem to replace weight-for-weight. Of course there may sometimes be good reasons for this, but since quicker setting seems to be valued more than higher holding, I'm mildly surprised that "I was able to go from a 40lb CQR to a 10kg Spade" isn't more commonly said. I have a Fortress, which is sort-of new generation, -ish, and my prime reason for replacing the old Danforthalike was to have something much lighter and therefore easier for a small crew member to handle.

The comment about anchor watch systems was perhaps a little tongue in cheek, but I am regularly entertained by people explaining that their NG anchor never, ever drags and that they always set an anchor watch. Perhaps it's just that people who like new shiny on the bow roller also like new shiny on their iPhones

duncan99210 said:
Don’t be silly....
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And many thanks for that valuable contribution. If you have recently changed to a NG anchor, did you go for one lighter, heavier or about the same weight as your old one?
 
JD, I changed to a Rocna about 7 years ago from a larger CQR, which spent far too much of its time lolling about on its side. Id have had a Delta if I could have found one locally of the right size but had to catch the bus to Palma Mallorca and found a Rocna before I found a Delta. I don’t dismiss the CQR: we sat out a 60+ knot wind on it quite comfortably but it was a pain to get it set, especially in harder sands.
I used an early anchor watch app on an Android phone as soon as they became available because I’m deaf and the alarm on the chartplotter won’t wake me up but the phone can go by my bed. Make sense to me to set an alarm no matter what anchor I might use. Still set one (on my relatively old iphone) whenever the forecast is a bit iffy: doesn’t every prudent skipper?
In any case, I was being flippant in my response to Pye End as it seemed to me that the thread is getting a little intense, as is too often the case with anchor threads..... Damn, just realised I got serious in my response. Apologies.
 
JumbleDuck said:
It's been discussed as a theme before. Generally people seem to replace weight-for-weight. Of course there may sometimes be good reasons for this, but since quicker setting seems to be valued more than higher holding, ?
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So a rather anecdotal and small sample, and arguably unrepresentative. There are probably other factors which make the subject rather more complex eg. changing anchoring habits. There are many who say that heavier anchors are better than lighter, so if you are buying a new anchor of any kind there must always be a temptation to also go up a size - understandable inclination particularly in today's society.

FYI I changed to a lighter Rocna from a CQR and find the performance in setting and holding far superior, as have so many contributors on here have also found. Hopefully you are also keeping a tally of similar stories. Pre-NG I changed up a CQR size to improve performance - perhaps something else you could keep tabs on (didn't work by the way)?

Regarding anchor watch systems, people probably use these because the electronic capabilities make it so easy. Anything to help a good night's sleep - knowing something or someone is 'on watch' must be a comfort. Unlikely to be anything to do with the anchor used, except perhaps boat owners embracing recent technology in anchors perhaps may also embrace changes in electronics?
 
duncan99210 said:
JD, I changed to a Rocna about 7 years ago from a larger CQR, which spent far too much of its time lolling about on its side. Id have had a Delta if I could have found one locally of the right size but had to catch the bus to Palma Mallorca and found a Rocna before I found a Delta. I don’t dismiss the CQR: we sat out a 60+ knot wind on it quite comfortably but it was a pain to get it set, especially in harder sands.
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Thanks very much. It seems to me that the possibility of using a much smaller NG anchor is surprisingly rarely given as a reason for changing, so it's very good to hear from someone who has gone that way. I have a 25lb CQR so not much weight to loose, particularly on chain.

Apologies.
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Not at all. I quite take your point!
 
Pye_End said:
So a rather anecdotal and small sample, and arguably unrepresentative.
Without a doubt.

There are probably other factors which make the subject rather more complex eg. changing anchoring habits. There are many who say that heavier anchors are better than lighter, so if you are buying a new anchor of any kind there must always be a temptation to also go up a size - understandable inclination particularly in today's society.
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Of course, and those with the spare cash to buy a NG anchor probably also have the spare cash for a powered windlass, so perhaps anchor weight isn't terribly important.

FYI I changed to a lighter Rocna from a CQR and find the performance in setting and holding far superior, as have so many contributors on here have also found. Hopefully you are also keeping a tally of similar stories. Pre-NG I changed up a CQR size to improve performance - perhaps something else you could keep tabs on (didn't work by the way)?
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Ta. Did you have dragging problems with the CQR? I lost the anchor which came with my boat, replaced it with a brand new 20lb SL CQR I had lying around (as you do) and then went for a second hand 25lb one for peace of mind, even though I had had no problems with the 20lb. Lots of anecdotes, probably some data in there somewhere.

Regarding anchor watch systems, people probably use these because the electronic capabilities make it so easy. Anything to help a good night's sleep - knowing something or someone is 'on watch' must be a comfort. Unlikely to be anything to do with the anchor used, except perhaps boat owners embracing recent technology in anchors perhaps may also embrace changes in electronics?
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True. I usually set the GPS to Go To the place where I anchored so I can keep a bleary eye on wind and tide shifts while tucked up in my bunk.
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