2007 - No Red Deisel

Gludy

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I have recently heard that the UK government has accepted with the EEC that after 2007 there will be no red deisel aviailable for boats. In other words we will have to pay full card deisel prices. Can anyone confirm this?
If it is true, then surely this will have a major impact on boating and will also mean that used boat prices will significantly drop as we approach that time.
I understand that farmers will still have red deisel - so how does that leave commercial boats? On the same basis they could have it as well.
Anyway if anyone can enlighten us on this matter it would be appreciated.
Paul

Paul
 
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If true, it's no real surprise - it was always only a question of time. Red will remain for commercial users (i.e. fishermen, ferries etc), in just the same way that farmers use it. So in theory, then, we have five years to get used to paying european prices for diesel. Except we won't, will we? We'll just have to get used to funding the damned Chancellor to an even greater extent...

Still, in five years' time, a used Bayliner Montego may well be an extremely attractive proposition....
 

jimd

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I understand the idea is to allow commercial vessels eg. fishing vessels to use red still. It will mean having two pumps
for the differant types, no doubt at our expense.
 
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Hi Paul, not seen you on the forum for a while, are getting used to the boat now, as for the diesel well we all knew that it's time was up sooner or later, I thought at 2005, there will be ways to still use red I am sure, for a start they will not sell red at marinas but surely a road side tanker will be the answer, I have taken my own red down to the boat times many, at 18p a litres its been worth the effort.
The next thing is how will they enforce the use of road taxed fuel, surely customs and excise will not be in the marinas and areas around the coast asking us to pull over while we dip the tank, what about the first fill up of white while its mixed up with the red thats still in the tank.

Im sure the debate will go on for many years to come, whils't it is I may have sold my boat by then, I shall return to boating in a couple of years when we will know where we stand.
Of course we could base in the Channel Islands where it,s still cheaper than Europe anyway.

Paul js.
 

Gludy

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Its introduction raises some problems- - some folks will have traces of red in their tanks for a year or two. What about just saying you filled up in the Channel Islands - there will have to be reinforcement - tank dipping etc.
Then there is the question of what is a commercial boat? Sound simple at first but when you delve into it, it becomes complex.
Apart from all this, there will surely have to be an impact on boat prices.

As regards my boating, well a lot of family duties have managed to get in the way of late but still I am managing a once a week trip down to her. I am honing my navigation skills, just had a nice daylight colour fishfinder/plotter installed which the fitter has not managed to link to the GPS as yet, but will no doubt manage to do soon.

I am probably of to the boat show with the next list of items I need - an 8 person canister life raft being the top one. I am also just about to book my four day skipper course with me being trained one to one on my own boat..... I am looking forward to that.

After my last trip on the flybridge in a force 5, I wanted to solve the clothing issue and so have just managed to purchase all the Hele Hansen clothing at a fantastic discount of between 50% and 66% off the RRP - all new and guaranteed - just shows you what is available if you shop around ( anyone can purchase at these discounts at anytime) So now I have the clothing gear all set up.

I plan to have her lifted out for a seacock repair and anti-fouling in February and after that, weather permitting will begin my first proper season of boating. I would like to make it around to the south coast of Cornwall and also the west of Ireland in this first season.

I still have a lot of jobs I want to do on her so that everything is ship shape - I really enjoy just pottering about her doing things that I would never do at home and therein lies a problem as the other half never ceases to point out the jobs at home and start with something like "If this was the boat .......".

Up until now all I have know is a few trips out in winter weather and I am dreaming about this coming Spring and summer.

Happy new year to you all
Paul




Paul
 

byron

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Don't panic - YET! In fact what happens in 2005 is that the matter of red deisel comes up for review, not that it automatically changes.
If they do change it, then all outlets will sell white and those craft excused duty will merely reclaim it, rather like VAT.


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If we do lose the red diesel in 2007 I cant see it having a huge effect on the price of diesel boats but I think it will make small sports cruisers with petrol power a more attractive option.
 
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Yes, true. Or at least, put back until then.

......Meanwhile, everyone has a chance to vote on this wonderful European Project. You have to admit, it's going just wonderfully. Giving away our most of the UK fishing industry, almost the entire beef industry, and car manufacturing was a small price to pay to er um enjoy the "obvious advantages" of "working with our European partners" . Now get ready for more "harmonisation" of prices and taxes - anyone know of any that may or have come down? Course not.

But it's all inevitable, isn't it? No it isn't. There's no theory of economics anywhere that suggests that large trading blocs of disparate peoples with different languages are more effective and our net trade with Europe remains negative. We had the chance to bond closely with Europe in the sixteenth century (Elizabeth 1, with Philip2 of Spain, hence become intertwined with the Spanish, Central European and the Holy Roman Empire) but didn't, and within 50 years of being the excommunicated country of Europe became Top Nation for the following two centuries or more.

The Euro is such a good idea that it's value has fallen, a disaster that they have totally got away with because it's "bound to work out" so that since the late eighties, when we dropped out of the ERM (all that conveniently forgotten too) the Brits have swarmed over Europe buying cheaper holidays and houses...all to end at the behest of the incredilby brilliant statesman Tony Blair. He's the one who got voted in only after the opportune death of John Smith, can't spell "tomorrow" so no chance of sensible budgets, and a sense of history so acute that he actually believes that the USA helped defend Britain against the Blitz in 1940 a full 15 months before they joined the war in Decemebr 1941, the Commonwealth forces of Australia etc now very firmly dumped in all our minds it seems.

When the vote regarding the Euro does come, you'll find Yes campaigners backed by an industry or a company with a vested interest in avoiding currency fluctataions, like the boss of sunseeker, for example. Or alternataivley, by deadhead policticians for whom a chance (bribe/promise) of an everlasting b'eurocratic job seems much more appealling than the current highly satisfactory general election process whereby the loser get a removal van outside the next morning, and with which I wholeheartedly agree - the country (and I speak the same lingo) chucks him or her out by a fairly straighjtforward process. Has anyone any idea how to vote out Neil Kinock from his job as European Commissioner? There isn't a way. The UK voted against him. Twice, ingeneral elecytions. Leon Britten, another contender for "least-liked-1980's - UK-politician" is his collegue in a similar top job.

Rant over. They're hoping that the arguments are over too. But they haven't started.
 

Geoffs

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Methinks you're a bit of a Euro sceptic, Matt. Join the club, or maybe you're a founder member.

This diesel lark is just another example of us getting all that's worse from the EC and none of benefits.

Still after 2007 I guess a Manhatten 80 with twin Lamborghini V12's and LPG conversion is the best bet.
 

Dave_Snelson

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Yes, I think Byron is right. This subject was featured in MBM about a year ago, If I recall.This situation will be "reviewed" at the stated time.

Interestingly, Diesel in Europe is massively cheaper than the UK anyway, so providing we get their prices (should the advantage be lost) the effect would not be so bad.

Anyway, about the conversion to heating oil.....
 

Gludy

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If the review goes Europes way there is no chance of paying other than garage prices for deisel. I think you will be paying full UK garage pump price.

I am afraid that I am as sceptical as Matt about it all. I have an interest in a company that trades with over 26 countries around the world and we really do not have a problem with currency fluctuations. We also export to most of the EEC countries without a problem.

It also is the case that Europe is a job for the 'almost made it' but never the less failed ... that is rejected politicians, who get on the gravy train for life. However, we not only get lumbered with our failed politicians but those of all the other member countries as well! This ensures that standards are kept to the lowest common level.

I think that a price hike of about 300% on deisel will have an effect on boat prices. A boat on my pontoon only had one trip on petrol engines before the owner realised the cost and then instantly started fitting deisels. Another is currently converting to LPG. I also think that defining what a commercial boat is, is not as simple as it first sounds. However, as road haulage has to pay normal pump prices for their fuel, I can see an argument that so should commercial boats. The one thing that you can be sure about is that the French will protect the right for farmers to stay with red deisel.








Paul
 
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The inland waterway uses might have a different perspective on the red diesel situation. Most canal users get their fuel from botyards that run a hire fleet of some sort. Does this mean that their hire fleet will be regarded as "commercial" boats and therefore allowed "red"? If so it could also mean difficulties for the private boater, because not many of the hire fleets are doing well enough to afford a new pump/tank installation. However it should be borne in mind that petrol users have not been able to buy their fuel at the canal side for many years. Most of them have built up noted on where they can get their petrol from. More than one has refuelled at Watford Gap services before now!
 
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Re: Why arent you up for MP

Spot on that's what you are ,it's been one mess after another .
We are not one nation any more .
It seems that once they cant get voted in here, then off they go to nice hotels and long holidays .
France is totally against the Uk always has been and always will be GRRRRRR
I could go on for ages about the decline in British standards because of the European community
We all pay much more for every and any thing
You cant get a decent cup of tea any where in Europe or for that matter tinned Fraybentos steak and kidney pies
Mick
 

Bergman

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Oh absolutely well said

Hear hear and all that

Funny wasn't it, the Tories told us for 3 consecutive elections that Kinnock couldn't run a sweetshop, was utterly irresponsible, incompetant and generally a liability.

We believed them (rightly)

Then a Tory prime minister nominated him as European commisioner,

Another passenger on the gravy train for useless, idle, good for nothing *£$%&"£%$ words fail me!

I bet they manage to avoid a referendum too - just you watch.
 

foxgoose

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Newby to this forum (and power boats)

Getting new boat with 230 hp Volvo sterndrive which I intend to keep on pontoon at the bottom of the garden.

If I install a tank and buy bulk fuel what's the correct spec. to satisfy a high performance engine like the Volvo?

How does this differ from the central heating oil I use or can I use the same tank?

Does the expensive stuff from fuel pontoons have any additives etc to make it better for yr engine?

Would be v grateful for any first hand experience of doing this
 
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Deleted User YDKXO

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Blame it all on Johnny Foreigner

Methinks too much Christmas cheer, Matt, dear boy. Shurely you jest? I dont think even the most rabid little Englander would blame Europe for the demise of our fishing, beef and car industries.
Our fishermen over-fished and under invested all off their own backs; its only the EC quota system that protects them from free market annihalation. As for beef, I dont recall that BSE or Foot and Mouth was imported from Europe unless you have inside info - do tell? As for our Car Industry, pluueese. Wrecked by incompetent management, Red Robbo and his mates, interfering govt and short term financial imperatives. So while Johnny Foreigner has Daimler-Chrysler, BMW, VW Group, PSA Group and Fiat Group we have...............hold on a minute............ah,yes Rover.....erm, TVR.....Bristol......mmm.....Noble.......and dont forget dear old Reliant (oh, no, they've gone bust again). Anybody can see its us that got it right
However I quite agree that Europe is a far inferior place to dear old Blighty except for some quite insignificant things like health, education and transport infrastructure. Oh and not to mention that we seem to pay more for everything - including fuel, of course
As for the Euro, I take it you're so confident that it'll bomb against Sterling that you have'nt done anything so whimpish as to forward buy Euros for that humungously expensive Leopard thing?
 

longjohnsilver

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You can buy red diesel in bulk. My last order for 1000 litres was at approx 18p per litre. I carry it down to the boat in 5 gal oil cans. Have done this for years and have saved a small fortune in the process.
 
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