2006 2.3 aircooled Honda out board engine

[jamie N]

I'm sure that all here will celebrate loudly with me having got my Honda 2.3 running perfectly again. The curse of the E10 had struck me, so I drained the tank and put in fresh fuel.
It ran, but very badly coughing & spluttering and needing choke; pretty much classic symptoms.
OK, carb off and cleaned, jets made good, and it ran less badly, but not well, still requiring an amount of choke.
Twice I went to the boat and forgot to get the Honda plug spanner and fresh plug, but did get it today and swapped the really black looking plug for the fresh spare, and the engine ran perfectly from the 1st pull.
Basics first eh!
So, a virtual glass of wine all round. Cheers ? !

 

[fastjedi]

Do you know what the problem was?

 

[jamie N]

Do you know what the problem was?

Yup. The fuel had gone off, and to get it to run at all, it had to be very rich with the choke activated to an extent. After I'd cleaned the carb, and refreshed the fuel, I'd not checked the plug as the spanner was elsewhere. As soon as I took the plug out though, it was blacker than black, it was obviously the final part of a (small) puzzle, with the spare plug in it ran perfectly.
Steve6? will hopefully concur with me, otherwise I'm back worrying. It's had a good 20 minutes of running and ticking over in the normal fashion.
Great engines.

 

[Steve65]

Yup. The fuel had gone off, and to get it to run at all, it had to be very rich with the choke activated to an extent. After I'd cleaned the carb, and refreshed the fuel, I'd not checked the plug as the spanner was elsewhere. As soon as I took the plug out though, it was blacker than black, it was obviously the final part of a (small) puzzle, with the spare plug in it ran perfectly.
Steve6? will hopefully concur with me, otherwise I'm back worrying. It's had a good 20 minutes of running and ticking over in the normal fashion.
Great engines.

I absolutely concur,
Im so glad you found the fault. These engines do not like fuel over 2 weeks old. When I say 2 weeks I mean fuel left in the carb for 2 weeks. Prolonged running of poor fuel also damages valve train.
Well done!

 

[Hanibal]

Greetings Steve65 -

Are you serious 2 weeks???

I guess the trick then is to run the motor out of fuel on each outing to keep it reliable...

 

[Steve65]

Greetings Steve65 -

Are you serious 2 weeks???

I guess the trick then is to run the motor out of fuel on each outing to keep it reliable...

Deadly serious, thats why Honda tell you to drain after usage. Run the carb dry, is a good call, but you only remove 3/4 of fuel out of the float bowl. Water will remain in the bottom of the bowl via the ethanol content so I also would recommend draining the bowl.
To do this hold the bowl in place with your finger and with a 10mm socket loosen the bowl retaining bolt a turn.

 

[jamie N]

For myself, I've always run the carb dry each time that it was used. My error I think was in leaving the E10 fuel in the tank, let's say 1/2 full for a few months when the boat wasn't used.
There's a lesson learnt..........!

 

[Beneteau381]

I absolutely concur,
Im so glad you found the fault. These engines do not like fuel over 2 weeks old. When I say 2 weeks I mean fuel left in the carb for 2 weeks. Prolonged running of poor fuel also damages valve train.
Well done!

Curious as to how it damages the valve train?

 

[Hanibal]

Thanks Steve 65.
After your advice I will drain it out completely after every run.
I just bought 5 ltrs of premium petrol will that go off in the can whilst waiting to be decanted? Or is it just the water residue in the bowl that causes the issue.

 

[Beneteau381]

Thanks Steve 65.
After your advice I will drain it out completely after every run.
I just bought 5 ltrs of premium petrol will that go off in the can whilst waiting to be decanted? Or is it just the water residue in the bowl that causes the issue.

Most premium petrols have less ethanol or none in them. Ethanol is hygroscopic, it absorbs water from the air. That is the issue. So E10 which is 10% ethanol absorbs more water. If you leave any in the carburettor then there is trace water in the bowl. If petrol is left in the bowl then the traces of water are as well. Turning the petrol off and running it till it stops still leaves traces of petrol and water in the bowl. The petrol over time evaporates, leaving water to react with the float bowl, if its steel such as a Honda it rusts, if aluminium such as the Mercury family,it forms white oxides. Plus if two stroke, the oil residue and petrol forms a gunk which blocks jets.
So best to use premium petrol for the lower or non ethanol. Or Aspen, a pure distillate. Smokescreens such as talk about plugs and valve trains, are just that imho. I havent seen any reports about those two issues.
Edit: also take care storing E10, it loses "light ends" more easily than ordinary petrol, it is these that make starting cold engines easier. Americans call petrol gasoline or gas for short. Carburettors or injectors are just a mechanism for converting petrol in to gas. Light ends convert more easily into gas, that is what the choke is for, it supplys more petrol and more importantly "light ends" when the engine is cold, hence the difficulty in starting a cold engine with stale petrol, and also in keeping it going at low revs.

 

[Steve65]

Most premium petrols have less ethanol or none in them. Ethanol is hygroscopic, it absorbs water from the air. That is the issue. So E10 which is 10% ethanol absorbs more water. If you leave any in the carburettor then there is trace water in the bowl. If petrol is left in the bowl then the traces of water are as well. Turning the petrol off and running it till it stops still leaves traces of petrol and water in the bowl. The petrol over time evaporates, leaving water to react with the float bowl, if its steel such as a Honda it rusts, if aluminium such as the Mercury family,it forms white oxides. Plus if two stroke, the oil residue and petrol forms a gunk which blocks jets.
So best to use premium petrol for the lower or non ethanol. Or Aspen, a pure distillate. Smokescreens such as talk about plugs and valve trains, are just that imho. I havent seen any reports about those two issues.
Edit: also take care storing E10, it loses "light ends" more easily than ordinary petrol, it is these that make starting cold engines easier. Americans call petrol gasoline or gas for short. Carburettors or injectors are just a mechanism for converting petrol in to gas. Light ends convert more easily into gas, that is what the choke is for, it supplys more petrol and more importantly "light ends" when the engine is cold, hence the difficulty in starting a cold engine with stale petrol, and also in keeping it going at low revs.

Aspen causes plug failures in Honda 2 or 2.3hp engines!

 

[Steve65]

I think im qualified to back up my findings of Aspen fuel having specialised literally in this make and model for around 15 years.
Aspen plug breakdowns are quite unique. The engine will start easily, run for around a minute then stop dead with no misfire. The engine will not start again until completely cold.
How did I find this....a gentleman asked me to have a look at three , yes three honda outboards, 1 x 2hp , 2 x 2.3hp. All had identical issues as described earlier.
I had an old plug in the van and swapped it between engines. The new old plug cured the issue. All engines were run on Aspen.
Since then I have had approximately 10 in the workshop showing exactly the same problem. Every single engine had Aspen in the tank.
I have never ever had the same breakdown in unleaded engines.
This most definately is not a smokescreen.
Irrespective of whether you use octane 99, unleaded e5 or e10 if you drain the carb prior to storage you will not have a problem