1996 Fairline Targa 37: Parts & Upgrade Advice

[jrudge]

I am looking at it form a point of view that the med is very hot and boats without AC will easily reach 40 degrees.

The OP has never said he has a luxury villa. Maybe you know each other and have better information than I do.

If the boat does not have a gen ( very likely given it has no AC) then AC will only be used in port.

If the OP has this magnificent villa then why does he want to install AC just to use in port if they are not sleeping on it?

I think the person seeing their particular circumstances as usual is you.

The OP is in essence asking about a non med boat in the med. Should he buy it? I have given my view. If staggeringly cheap then go for it. If you disagree that is fine with me. This forum is not about telling people what they want to hear it is about given advise to people who ask questions.

 

[Grubble]

I am looking at it form a point of view that the med is very hot and boats without AC will easily reach 40 degrees.

The OP has never said he has a luxury villa. Maybe you know each other and have better information than I do.

If the boat does not have a gen ( very likely given it has no AC) then AC will only be used in port.

If the OP has this magnificent villa then why does he want to install AC just to use in port if they are not sleeping on it?

I think the person seeing their particular circumstances as usual is you.

The OP is in essence asking about a non med boat in the med. Should he buy it? I have given my view. If staggeringly cheap then go for it. If you disagree that is fine with me. This forum is not about telling people what they want to hear it is about given advise to people who ask questions.

You said "A non ac boat in the med has a very limited market" - I was pointing out that is nonsense when it comes to an 11m sports boat, especially as AC can be retrofitted if necessary.

As someone who boats in the med, it would never occur to me that I need AC on my boat - just because you go everywhere sitting inside with the AC on, doesn't mean everyone else does also.

 

[markc]

You said "A non ac boat in the med has a very limited market" - I was pointing out that is nonsense when it comes to an 11m sports boat, especially as AC can be retrofitted if necessary.

As someone who boats in the med, it would never occur to me that I need AC on my boat - just because you go everywhere sitting inside with the AC on, doesn't mean everyone else does also.

The OP said - "will be berthed in Spain and I will be living onboard for 3 - 4 weeks at a time"... that is hardly day boat use, so advice given by Jrudge seems very sensible

 

[petem]

The OP will need A/C if he is planning on staying on his boat.

My experience of people staying on their boats is very similar to Grubble's. Our marina is dominated by Spanish boats and we (plus two other British boats) are the only motor boats with people staying on board.

An 11m boat with no A/C will not be attractive to Brit buyers (who wish to stay on board) but it will make zero difference to Spanish, Dutch, Belgium, etc owners who all have villas and use their boats as day boats.

I admit that my experience is quite limited to a certain part of Spain. Perhaps Cala D'Or and Antibes are rammed with people sleeping on 11m boats?

 

[jrudge]

It it is the Op that said they were sleeping on the thing! There are lots of people who seemingly want him to buy a villa! I just read the question.

 

[Grubble]

It it is the Op that said they were sleeping on the thing! There are lots of people who seemingly want him to buy a villa! I just read the question.

You told the OP to avoid that boat because:-

"A non ac boat in the med has a very limited market."

A very limited market maybe for Brits who fly in to stay on the boat for a couple of weeks, but not for everyone else who actually live near their boat.

Stop moving the goalposts of what you typed out - you are simply wrong.

 

[jrudge]

You told the OP to avoid that boat because:-

"A non ac boat in the med has a very limited market."

A very limited market maybe for Brits who fly in to stay on the boat for a couple of weeks, but not for everyone else who actually live near their boat.

Stop moving the goalposts of what you typed out - you are simply wrong.

We will just have to disagree. A boat is med spec for a reason.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

When you say "self contained unit" do you mean (a portable) one that sucks air in through a hatch or something like that? That would be a bit crap IMO although some people seem to make do with them.

Ours is permanently mounted and has a through hull fitting for a water feed.

Hi Pete,
It wasn't my intention to stir the pot about A/C - clearly some strongly-held views on this forum.
I will be sleeping on the boat in the Med - hence A/C being top of my list of modifications. In my mind A/C would only be used whilst in the marina using shore power - wasn't considering a generator to run A/C when out at sea.
I was thinking of a temporary solution initially until I can assess the layout and room available/accessibility before installing a more permanent solution (hence my ask about self-contained or portable units)
My research tells me such a solution will require a sea water input to cool the air, a water output above the water line, a condenser, ducting to where the vents are placed and a return route. Given A/C was fitted on 1997 Targa I am assuming that the electric will be up to the job (but some new wiring might be needed). Intel says a 37ft boat will need 2 units strategically placed. Read on earlier post that someone fitted a unit behind the saloon stairs to cool the main saloon and the aft bedroom - with a second unit just of the master bedroom. Again need to see the art of the possible first before I start having holes drilled and thru-hull fittings installed.

I am genuinely appreciative of all views

 

[markc]

During the summer we always have the AC on in port, but rarely at anchor - maybe a few times in the summer if temp is 30+ during early evening to cool the boat down, but never over night. We find that there is always enough of a gentle breeze at night to be comfortable. However, a generator is super useful for lots of other reasons, so if you're going to the expense and upheaval of installing AC, then it's worth considering installing a generator at the same time. It's unlikely that you'll recover the cost of the upgrades if you sell the boat in a couple of years, but if you keep it for longer the benefits will outweigh the loss. It might still be preferable to buy a boat that is already the right spec for you.

 

[Hurricane]

I agree with Pete - don't buy any of those portable domestic units - they don't work and take up too much space.
A few boats in Sant Carles have been fitting/replacing air conditioning units on their boats.
There is a particularly good mainland Spanish supplier where you can buy the units at really good prices.
Have a look at their website - here:-
marine air conditioners
Self contained units starting at as little as 1500 euros.
A Targa 37 would need a few of these (bigger ones) but the prices are good.
That supplier is very reliable - I've bought a couple of Air Conditioning raw water pumps from them.

BTW those looking for a good replacement A/C raw water pumps - give these people a call.
Their pumps are sealed units with magnetic drives so no glands to fail.
Prices very good as well.

You will definitely need aid conditioning in the Med.
If your boat doesn't have air conditioning you can fit it quite cheaply - there are a couple of other suppliers in this market at similar prices.
A guy in our marina fits these cheaper units - he has done dozens of installations no complaints from his customers.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I agree with Pete - don't buy any of those portable domestic units - they don't work and take up too much space.

I used a portable domestic unit for a year, and I have to disagree they work. I had a 10k btu unit, used in a similar size to a Targa 37 boat a Gobbi 335 SC boat.
It is probably harder to fresh the Gobbi then a Targa 37 for the open forward cabin arrangement.
But the cabin became cold in ten minutes at 35 degrees air temperature in August of that year.
Yes they do take space.
Are they better then a fixed unit, no. But is it was a cheap 300 euro solution, versus 4k of a fixed unit plus installation.

The cheaper 1.5k unit here would be no good for a Targa 37, wer I think you need a minimum of 12k btu to work.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

I agree with Pete - don't buy any of those portable domestic units - they don't work and take up too much space.
A few boats in Sant Carles have been fitting/replacing air conditioning units on their boats.
There is a particularly good mainland Spanish supplier where you can buy the units at really good prices.
Have a look at their website - here:-
marine air conditioners
Self contained units starting at as little as 1500 euros.
A Targa 37 would need a few of these (bigger ones) but the prices are good.
That supplier is very reliable - I've bought a couple of Air Conditioning raw water pumps from them.

BTW those looking for a good replacement A/C raw water pumps - give these people a call.
Their pumps are sealed units with magnetic drives so no glands to fail.
Prices very good as well.

You will definitely need aid conditioning in the Med.
If your boat doesn't have air conditioning you can fit it quite cheaply - there are a couple of other suppliers in this market at similar prices.
A guy in our marina fits these cheaper units - he has done dozens of installations no complaints from his customers.

Thanks Hurricane - really helpful.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

During the summer we always have the AC on in port, but rarely at anchor - maybe a few times in the summer if temp is 30+ during early evening to cool the boat down, but never over night. We find that there is always enough of a gentle breeze at night to be comfortable. However, a generator is super useful for lots of other reasons, so if you're going to the expense and upheaval of installing AC, then it's worth considering installing a generator at the same time. It's unlikely that you'll recover the cost of the upgrades if you sell the boat in a couple of years, but if you keep it for longer the benefits will outweigh the loss. It might still be preferable to buy a boat that is already the right spec for you.

Thanks Mark - benefits and comfort over cost recovery.
Little point having a nice boat in the sun if the heat makes it uncomfortable to stay onboard
Hadn't considered investing in a generator since I envisaged only using AC when moored and on shore power. What other benefits would a generator give me - what do you need to power when at sea?

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks Mark - benefits and comfort over cost recovery.
Little point having a nice boat in the sun if the heat makes it uncomfortable to stay onboard
Hadn't considered investing in a generator since I envisaged only using AC when moored and on shore power. What other benefits would a generator give me - what do you need to power when at sea?

The big benefit of having a generator is to charge batteries or run the boats systems at anchor (fridges etc).
Typically, a modern motor boat won't last long on its batteries without charge.
Mine are pretty much depleted after one night at anchor.
So. at anchor, you either run a generator 24/7 or have a regime that uses the house batteries and the generator to recharge them.
I prefer not to run my generator 24/7 - I like running through the night on batteries.
Then the generator goes on in the morning for breakfast (coffee etc).
Likewise, in the evening, the generator will be running during dinner and just before bed - in the heat of the summer and seeing as the generator is charging the batteries, I would also run the A/C to cool the cabins just before bed.

However - and this is BIG HOWEVER.
If you run a regime like the one I mention above, you will never completely recharge your batteries.
Lead acid batteries start charging at a high current but as they start to regain their charge, the charge current drops off - exponentially.
To fully charge a lead acid battery bank, you will need a full day with generator or shore power.
In reality, at anchor using the above regime, you never get the charge back to full.
In fact every day, the full recharge level drops.
You can then easily, on discharge, get to the 50% level where you kill your lead acid batteries.
This, in reality is about 3 or 4 days at anchor.
After that you need new batteries - don't ask me how I know.

For this reason. I fitted solar panels.
My solar panels don't have the capacity to fully replace the daily draw from the batteries.
But they do have the capacity during the main sunlight times to "finish off" charging after the generator has done the bulk charge.

A better, more modern approach would be to change your house batteries for Lithium.
Lithium batteries can be charged by the generator at full charge rate - all the time.
Lithium batteries are also fitted with protection so that you can't damage them.

Sorry for deviating from the question but. for me, a generator's main use is to charge the batteries or if you are going to run it 24/7, then it is to keep all the boat's systems running - fridges etc. After all, who wants warm gin and tonics.

 

[petem]

Hadn't considered investing in a generator since I envisaged only using AC when moored and on shore power.

And this is what the vast majority of small sports cruiser owners do (myself included).

Hurricane and jrudge above both have 60 foot flybridge boats so the usage is quite different.

Before installing A/C I'd consider where you're going to put it as space on these boats is already extremely limited. You could install it in the engine bay nut you might find that it makes access to engine even more difficult. You could install it under the aft cabin forward berth but that's not going to be pleasant for anyone sleeping in there.

In fact, I was talking to a friend the other night and his Targa 34 was fitted with a generator at the factory. It wasn't working so he's ripped it out and has used the space for tool storage.

 

[petem]

Hi Pete,
It wasn't my intention to stir the pot about A/C - clearly some strongly-held views on this forum.

Don't worry jrudge is a mate of mine so it's all in good spirit (we've been arguing about these things for over 25 years)!

 

[ClaytonDJ]

And this is what the vast majority of small sports cruiser owners do (myself included).

Hurricane and jrudge above both have 60 foot flybridge boats so the usage is quite different.

Before installing A/C I'd consider where you're going to put it as space on these boats is already extremely limited. You could install it in the engine bay nut you might find that it makes access to engine even more difficult. You could install it under the aft cabin forward berth but that's not going to be pleasant for anyone sleeping in there.

In fact, I was talking to a friend the other night and his Targa 34 was fitted with a generator at the factory. It wasn't working so he's ripped it out and has used the space for tool storage.

Thanks Pete.

I've engaged with the firm in Cartagena regarding A/C. They supply the units and everything needed to install it including the seawater pump (with exception of the 2 required thru hull fittings) but do not fit - so quite fancying having a go at installing myself.
They have suggested that I would only need 1 12000BTU unit for the Targa 37 - and there is room to install it under the seating in the main saloon running with flow into the saloon - and ducting to 2 further outlets (1 in the master cabin and a second in the aft cabin).
I have the size of the units - and will need to measure the available space in the Targa when the purchase is complete.

Their advice is to get the boatyard to install the thru hull fittings (just in case there is any leakage afterwards!). Considering buying the unit and installation kit and installing it over the winter months - then having the thru hull fittings done around March (when I'll probably need it lifted out for anti-fouling) - then connect it all up to keep cool in the summer months.

I realise a plan for AC is only a plan - but at least now I have one.

My jury is still out on need for generator. Seems costly option for keeping ice cubes intact.

 

[ClaytonDJ]

Don't worry jrudge is a mate of mine so it's all in good spirit (we've been arguing about these things for over 25 years)!

Thank goodness for that

 

[ClaytonDJ]

The big benefit of having a generator is to charge batteries or run the boats systems at anchor (fridges etc).
Typically, a modern motor boat won't last long on its batteries without charge.
Mine are pretty much depleted after one night at anchor.
So. at anchor, you either run a generator 24/7 or have a regime that uses the house batteries and the generator to recharge them.
I prefer not to run my generator 24/7 - I like running through the night on batteries.
Then the generator goes on in the morning for breakfast (coffee etc).
Likewise, in the evening, the generator will be running during dinner and just before bed - in the heat of the summer and seeing as the generator is charging the batteries, I would also run the A/C to cool the cabins just before bed.

However - and this is BIG HOWEVER.
If you run a regime like the one I mention above, you will never completely recharge your batteries.
Lead acid batteries start charging at a high current but as they start to regain their charge, the charge current drops off - exponentially.
To fully charge a lead acid battery bank, you will need a full day with generator or shore power.
In reality, at anchor using the above regime, you never get the charge back to full.
In fact every day, the full recharge level drops.
You can then easily, on discharge, get to the 50% level where you kill your lead acid batteries.
This, in reality is about 3 or 4 days at anchor.
After that you need new batteries - don't ask me how I know.

For this reason. I fitted solar panels.
My solar panels don't have the capacity to fully replace the daily draw from the batteries.
But they do have the capacity during the main sunlight times to "finish off" charging after the generator has done the bulk charge.

A better, more modern approach would be to change your house batteries for Lithium.
Lithium batteries can be charged by the generator at full charge rate - all the time.
Lithium batteries are also fitted with protection so that you can't damage them.

Sorry for deviating from the question but. for me, a generator's main use is to charge the batteries or if you are going to run it 24/7, then it is to keep all the boat's systems running - fridges etc. After all, who wants warm gin and tonics.

Thanks Hurricane.
I see the value of having a generator - though think it will be more for boat electrics and the fridge than running the AC when at sea or anchor.
Quite attracted to the mix of a generator to charge batteries and solar panels to trickle charge the batteries giving the generator some time off - so will explore further.
If anyone has successfully implemented such a solution - interested to know make, model and size of generator used (and make/size of solar panels needed to generate sufficient charge)

 

[ClaytonDJ]

I agree with Pete - don't buy any of those portable domestic units - they don't work and take up too much space.
A few boats in Sant Carles have been fitting/replacing air conditioning units on their boats.
There is a particularly good mainland Spanish supplier where you can buy the units at really good prices.
Have a look at their website - here:-
marine air conditioners
Self contained units starting at as little as 1500 euros.
A Targa 37 would need a few of these (bigger ones) but the prices are good.
That supplier is very reliable - I've bought a couple of Air Conditioning raw water pumps from them.

BTW those looking for a good replacement A/C raw water pumps - give these people a call.
Their pumps are sealed units with magnetic drives so no glands to fail.
Prices very good as well.

You will definitely need aid conditioning in the Med.
If your boat doesn't have air conditioning you can fit it quite cheaply - there are a couple of other suppliers in this market at similar prices.
A guy in our marina fits these cheaper units - he has done dozens of installations no complaints from his customers.

Thanks Hurricane.
I've engaged with the company in Cartagena - really helpful (Juanjo Navarro) - and obtained their recommendations on size of unit needed to effectively cool the Targa 37 (and installation kit).
Cots not as horrifying as initially thought - and the more I do myself the better value for money it gets.
I'm going to give installation a go myself (with the exception of the 2 required thru hull fittings). Juanjo's advice is to get the boatyard in Sotogrande to fit these (just in case there are any issues/leaks afterwards).
So if the survey and sea trail are positive and I buy the boat - I've got a nice little installation project to keep me occupied through the cooler months.

Thanks again for all your support and sound advice.