1980's Beneteau Keel bolts - does this sound right

jonrarit

jonrarit

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Just been making enquiries with Beneteau for a set of replacement keel bolts for my First 345 (Fin keel - Iron)

The current ones are 11 off Steel Bolts (not stainless) with 60mm square "plate" washers again steel not stainless.

What they have spec'd as replacement is 11 off stainless steel threaded bars with SS nuts & SS washers.

I've asked them to double check, confirm when and why the spec change and correct torque figure but was wondering does what they are suggesting sound right?

JR

I am assuming of course the current bolts are "standard" and have not been changed already
 
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Times have moved on. Bennies in the 80s were el cheepo boats, the skodas of the sea and so fittings would be low cost too. Theres no reason why you shouldnt use A4 stainless provided your keel is well sealed to the hull and the boat doesnt ship water like the old wooden ones do. If all you have in your bilges is dust then fine.

That said, why are you replacing them anyway? If they have been dry and you havent hit anything hard, they will be as good as new.
 
Interesting analogy birdseye but on the basis Skoda's of the 80's were tough little sods I wont complain :)))

The hull seal is fine and no not hit anything hard but the bilges are not always dry (rain not sea) and bolt heads, now 30 years old, have seen better days so on the grounds I'm planning on keeping her for a long time it's a piece of mind thing.

JR
 
Are you sure they are bolts and not studs with nuts? The rust on the heads is quite common on boats that leak rain water into the bilge, but is unlikely to have affected the threads or the keel attachment itself. Not a reason for replacement, and if they are studs you may well not be able to remove them without dropping the keel. You say the seal between the hull and keel is sound, so there is no reason why the bolts should not be equally sound.

The normal treatment is to clean up the heads and possibly remove the nuts if the plates underneath are corroded. Replace the nuts and plates if you like, but just using a rust stabiliser then priming and painting to minimise corrosion is the normal treatment - and of course finding the source of leaks to prevent water getting in again.
 
Still no reason to change them just because the heads are rusty. Clean them up, assess whether the washers/plates are sound and treat them as suggested. If they really are so corroded that the security of your keel is in doubt then expect you won't be able to get a spanner on them so will have to cut them off and drop the keel. If there is no sign of leakage trying to replace them is likely to cause more problems for no gain.

Not sure I would use studded bar to replace them if you really feel replacement is necessary. Guess they are suggesting that because the bolts were specially made all those years ago and there is no demand for replacements. Much easier to get 316 stainless bar cut to length and threaded both ends which is the normal way of making keel bolts these days.
 
If there is no leak, normal steel won't corrode much. If there is a leak, stainless steel could be prone to crevice corrosion which can be much more devastating than regular rust...

Regular steel is cheaper.

So why spec stainless at all?

Not trying to be controversial, just don't get it.
 
yachtailsa said:
If there is no leak, normal steel won't corrode much. If there is a leak, stainless steel could be prone to crevice corrosion which can be much more devastating than regular rust...

So why spec stainless at all?

Not trying to be controversial, just don't get it.
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Stainless steel is almost universal now for keel bolts. This is because modern boats tend not to leak in a way that water gets to the bolts with the risk of crevice corrosion. Mild steel rusts if fresh water attacks the parts in the bilge as in the OPs case and looks a mess. Either is suitable for the job structurally if sized and spaced correctly - usually way oversize!

Was different in the old days when bolts went through wood which was often damp and moved causing leaks. I have some good examples of corroded keel bolts from my old wooden boat. Replaced them with stainless but sealed all the holes and joints properly. Installed in 1992, still there and no sign of movement.
 
Thanks Tranona. All very reasonable. I think I just have a downer on stainless below the waterline since I saw what happened to a 1 year old A4 rudder retaining bolt on my last boat. It was nearly corroded through, but the rest of the bolt looked absolutely perfect. No sign at all from the outside. :-/ Left me very skeptical about using stainless below the waterline if there is any chance of a leak!

It was lucky the rudder had to come off that year.
 
Beneteau have come back and confirmed they were originally built with regular steel bolts & plates (as per mine) but as they are no longer available they now supply SS rods, washers and nuts as a replacement.

7 of the 11 bolts look fine. It is the four bolt heads ( & plates) around the sump area of the bilge that are corroded to the point (as Tranona pointed out) that the original size socket would no longer fit. I suspect removal of these would require hammering on a smaller socket & releasing with an impact wrench.

I'll take some photos when I'm next on board and post them here - a picture is worth a thousand word as they say

JR
 
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jonrarit said:
Beneteau have come back and confirmed they were originally built with regular steel bolts & plates (as per mine) but as they are no longer available they now supply SS rods, washers and nuts as a replacement.

7 of the 11 bolts look fine. It is the four bolt heads ( & plates) around the sump area of the bilge that are corroded to the point (as Tranona pointed out) that the original size socket would no longer fit. I suspect removal of these would require hammering on a smaller socket & releasing with an impact wrench.

I'll take some photos when I'm next on board and post them here - a picture is worth a thousand word as they say

JR
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I would weld a nut or something that would allow leverage to be applied.The welding would be done in short bursts to avoid overheating of the head of the stud.
May not be practical for everyone though.
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

Following on from last summer thread, here are some photos of the keel bolts in question and what "appeared" to be corroding bolt heads and washers
View attachment 55559View attachment 55560View attachment 55561View attachment 55562View attachment 55563

So on the grounds I was never going be happy until I knew for sure, I went ahead and ordered the replacements from Beneteau ........

Replacing one at a time as per beneteau's instruction, all 11 bolts came out using an impact gun to free them them and they all came out looking like this

They were all perfect. Even the washers which looked bad in the earlier photos were absolutely fine . The forward two plates had however corroded which makes sense when you look at the colour of the bilge in that section.

Anyway, all cleaned up and replaced with the new stainless studs, plates & nuts. So with hindsight did I need to replace them ..... no which I am sure is reassuring for other beneteau owners of that era. Am I glad I did ...well except for the sore back I have piece of mind which was how the whole thing started, so yes Job done & ready for the next 30 years.

Hope this helps others

JR
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

jonrarit said:
Following on from last summer thread, here are some photos of the keel bolts in question and what "appeared" to be corroding bolt heads and washers
View attachment 55559View attachment 55560View attachment 55561View attachment 55562View attachment 55563

So on the grounds I was never going be happy until I knew for sure, I went ahead and ordered the replacements from Beneteau ........

Replacing one at a time as per beneteau's instruction, all 11 bolts came out using an impact gun to free them them and they all came out looking like this

They were all perfect. Even the washers which looked bad in the earlier photos were absolutely fine . The forward two plates had however corroded which makes sense when you look at the colour of the bilge in that section.

Anyway, all cleaned up and replaced with the new stainless studs, plates & nuts. So with hindsight did I need to replace them ..... no which I am sure is reassuring for other beneteau owners of that era. Am I glad I did ...well except for the sore back I have piece of mind which was how the whole thing started, so yes Job done & ready for the next 30 years.

Hope this helps others

JR
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The part that matters is good but those heads and washers were in poor shape.I removed one of my Fulmar's keelbolts some time ago and it looked as good as the day it was turned. And there's absolutely no rust anywhere. The hole on the keel had been filled with oil by the way. Also from 1980.
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

30boat said:
but those heads and washers were in poor shape.
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That's what I thought too but in reality they may have "looked" bad, but once removed and cleaned up there was no actual corrosion. (square washes excepted) The bolts and round washers were fine.

What made it look worse than it was, was the heads were covered in some old kind of sealant which had gone hard and started to crack. This looked very like the flaking rust which you would expect from corroding steel. I'll take some photos of the washers later to show you
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

jonrarit said:
That's what I thought too but in reality they may have "looked" bad, but once removed and cleaned up there was no actual corrosion. (square washes excepted) The bolts and round washers were fine.

What made it look worse than it was, was the heads were covered in some old kind of sealant which had gone hard and started to crack. This looked very like the flaking rust which you would expect from corroding steel. I'll take some photos of the washers later to show you
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This is interesting because I'm planning a transatlantic on a similar vintage Jeanneau which has keelbolts looking like yours.The owner is a bit worried,understandably.
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

30boat said:
This is interesting because I'm planning a transatlantic on a similar vintage Jeanneau which has keelbolts looking like yours.The owner is a bit worried,understandably.
Click to expand...

Having completed the job it really wasnt difficult. A good impact wrench, proper sealant & a torque wrench is all you need. I'd probably pull the front and rear ones then a random couple from the middle (one at a time of course). That should give you a good indication of what to expect from the others and help make a decision on whether to replace.

JR
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

Thanks for getting back on that, good stuff.

Would you mind posting which type of wrench you used and what was the torque for the new bolts?
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

it was just a 240v 1/2 drive one hired from my local hire shop for £15.

The torque was 209nm (154ft lbs) as specified by beneteau. Not necessarily the same for a Jeanneau though so I'd check with them first to be sure
 
Re: 1980's Beneteau Keel bolts

I am not contemplating the job but some extremely high torque figures were quoted in a previous thread, I thought they were dodgy.
Thanks for that.
 
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