14 Months and still not back in the water.... Can anyone help?

[volvopaul]

Hi Volvo Paul,

So to be clear, we did not get 2 new engines.

We got our current engines stripped and repaired with some parts that could be used and some that couldn't. Princess were VERY unhappy about this but the surveyor insisted and so the insurance would only pay out this way. They offered us the option of some money for "reasonable costs", but we then pay the rest for new engines, but it was a huge amount and we couldn't afford it.

They want us to pay for:
X P7142 Hempel black antifou 1 176.00 EACH 0.00 176.00 S
X P76300 Hempel white antifou 1 176.00 EACH 0.00 176.00 S
X Z3588745 Volvo DPH leg anodes 2 38.00 EACH 0.00 76.00 S
X Z3588746 Stern drive anodes 2 42.30 EACH 0.00 84.60 S
X Z3588753 Dph bellows kit 2 55.50 EACH 0.00 111.00 S
X Z3594509 Drive Bellows Kit DP 2 46.30 EACH 0.00 92.60 S
X Z964114 Volvo dph oring 2 0.66 EACH 0.00 1.32 S
X Z889455 Volvo dph washer 2 2.50 EACH 0.00 5.00 S
X Z949656 Volvo gasket 2 1.10 EACH 0.00 2.20 S
hull Antifoul
Z22479648 Ips gear oil 5 ltr 2 88.80 EACH 0.00 177.60 S
X Z22479650 Dph oil 1 ltr 2 19.60 EACH 0.00 39.20 S
X Z22274885 Volvo hose clamp 2 3.30 EACH 0.00 6.60 S
X Z3862903 Volvo bushing 4 1.50 EACH 0.00 6.00 S
X Z3589516 Wear Washer 4 5.80 EACH 0.00 23.20 S
X Z21243935 Volvo lock ring 2 4.20 EACH 0.00 8.40 S
X Z21868040 Anode kit 2 51.50 EACH 0.00 103.00 S
X Z3863213 Dph prop nut 2 20.70 EACH 0.00 41.40 S
X Z3863211 Dph prop nut 2 22.50 EACH 0.00 45.00 S
X Z22479648 Ips gear oil 5 ltr 1 88.80 EACH 0.00 88.80 S
X Z3584238 Hot water valve 1 69.20 EACH 0.00 69.20 S
X Z21868040 Anode kit 1 51.50 EACH 0.00 51.50 S
Small Aluminium Thru 13.5
2 x Small trim tab anode 18.31
Hot Water Valve 69.20
Anode Kit 51.5

All this list is drive service parts and hull antifoul, no Labour then ?
I’d say that’s very reasonable considering what has happened.

However I just hope that they fitted new wiring looms to both engines if the water level was high enough to penetrate the engines , starters and alternators of course .

 

[2013PrincessV39]

All this list is drive service parts and hull antifoul, no Labour then ?
I’d say that’s very reasonable considering what has happened.

However I just hope that they fitted new wiring looms to both engines if the water level was high enough to penetrate the engines , starters and alternators of course .

So do you think that the £2k ish amount is something that we walk away with happy that we have avoided worse? We just dont know which battles to fight anymore, and it has taken alot of cross checking to ensure we haven't been caught out so far.

The bigger problem I am also looking for help on is the fact it has taken 14 months to get to this stage, where the boat is almost ready for delivery post sea trial, but we are still awaiting the insurance to make a final payment and also for Princess to prioritise this as something to get done. The standard of customer care on both sides has been very lax. If I dont check in once a day, nothing gets done.

 

[2013PrincessV39]

So do you think that the £2k ish amount is something that we walk away with happy that we have avoided worse? We just dont know which battles to fight anymore, and it has taken alot of cross checking to ensure we haven't been caught out so far.

The bigger problem I am also looking for help on is the fact it has taken 14 months to get to this stage, where the boat is almost ready for delivery post sea trial, but we are still awaiting the insurance to make a final payment and also for Princess to prioritise this as something to get done. The standard of customer care on both sides has been very lax. If I dont check in once a day, nothing gets done.

The actual repair time was actually under 3 weeks, but the surveyor constantly having to approve payouts etc. and everyone just generally switching off unless I poke them has been a laborious task.

 

[Seastoke]

Make sure you have it surveyed, after repair

 

[Portofino]

Betterment .

Sometimes when a serious complicated mechanism is dismantled to replace a part like removing the engines to get at the part ( horn ? ) they obviously have to remove the stern drive leg .
The leg is on a timed service interval anyhow every 2 years .
Don’t know where you where on that cycle you have not said ?
So as an alternative to replacing them with new parts , the service parts , anodes and all .....would you rather they refitted as much a possible the old parts .
It’s a grey area and I,am sure VP,s legal dept ( world wide work on various levels ) know how to pass some costs back under “ betterment “ to the claimant.
When where the drives last serviced with bellows replacement prior to the incident.

As said by Paul, they seem to have absorbed the labour of drive removal / refits because they needed to do that .
Any new parts unrelated to the incident I think are “ betterment “

As you said if have 4 slashed tyres your ins co replaces the tyres , not the wheels , wheel lugs or disks , pays for a valet , paint detailing etc etc .
While the four wheels are off you could ask them to refit the new tyres on a set of new alloys , but you fund the wheels .Labour is on the insurance claim .Thats the way I see it .

So the insurance should cover you to put you back in the original position .Any “ betterment “ will be refuted .

 

[Seastoke]

Why are you now posting ,when you are nearly back in the water.

 

[Mr Googler]

I guess you have some recourse if you didn’t authorise the non related work however.....it’s £2k you would probably have spent anyway so I would just move on.

The time frame is done and dusted....no way to recover time and to be fair...the fact you paid for a mooring isn’t really the insurance companies issue but I understand your frustration.

What I would do is get Volvopaul involved as your representative for sea trail and inspections BEFORE it’s deemed as fixed by the insurance company.

 

[jfm]

JFM was actually recommended as someone who might reply, by the very kind MBY team member who suggested I give the forum a go.

I’d be delighted to help but I can’t. I have read all this just now and I have no clue what is going on. 99% of what you have written is irrelevant. Like the blow by blow account of your day’s boating and the name of your dog.
If you can get to the point I’ll try to help, but the insurance company dispute is lost in thousands of words worth of verbal diarrhoea describing an engine problem that (I think, but who can tell) insurers have mostly paid for.
If the bottom line is that the insurers have paid everything except what is covered by their betterment clause then they’re in the right. They might have over used the betterment clause of course, in which case write on here just about that and I’ll happily help.
Remember also that everyone at princess/insurers might be fatigued by your emails.

 

[petem]

All I can say is that you were lucky having some great people helping you out on the day. Kudos to Sea Start, Yarmouth Harbour, Berthon and the RNLI for getting you safely back on the hard.

Incidentally, if they'd been unable to lift you then I guess that you could have very gingerly beached the boat on a slipway to stop it sinking.

 

[Portofino]

I went through a 3 wire barbed wire fence after spinning off in a 6 month old Porsche .
The field was a water logged paddock .No injuries .Pre internet days .
Car drivable .Farmer pulled me out .
I drove it to nearest Porsche centre and handed the keys to the lady on reception and wrote down by insurance details and got a taxi home .
There was zero panel damage , dents etc but every panel inc every pain of glass ( inc mirrors ) light lenses had scratches and some deep where the barbs had run across .Two wheels and tyres where scratched .
It needed a glass out respray ( but zero panel replacements beating out )
New glass and light lenses not refit of what they took off and two new wheels and tyres .
I had one letter from the insurance Co saying they accepted the claim and another from the official Porsche body shop suggesting I paid for a another pair of tyres the good side ( something about equal tread depth ) and new wheels on the good side as seeing although not damaged they had been in an accident.Ins Co just said repaint those “ good two “ and refuted the new tyre argument quoting “ betterment “ they where the only prepared to replace the two scored by the wire barbs .

About 3 months later while passing I called in to get a time line on picking it up and was told / shown a stripped out shell “ we will ring you when are done “
5 month later I got the call “ it’s ready for collection “

When I arrived ( remember the only communication was 2 letters from them and one ad hock visit from me )
They just handed over the keys and off i went .
I did enquire about having to folk out for 1/2 the new wheel / tyre arrangement , the “betterment “to the body shop and they just shrugged there shoulders. I saw the bill some £18 K and the four new wheels n tyres were buried in there .


Ok 5 months was a long time but remember it wasn’t just a glass out repaint they had to supply new glass and lights to put back .Even the mirrors were replaced , too scratched up to repair .

Point is his I did not hassle them and the cold call into the body shop was just because I was in the area “ just passing “ 60 miles away from home .
No internet car forums and in those days .

Thing is I know this was a body shop a large one with maybe 50 cars in at once , with guys doing a bit on each each day , cars at various stages of tear down and parts fitted and paintwork etc, but you can’t expect them to do yours 24/7 and turn it around in 2/3 weeks .
Parts orders , insurance accessor ( your boat surveyors) engineers in the area , waiting for literally “ paint to dry “ properly etc etc .
There’s a school of thought I subscribe to of leaving professionals just to get on .I wonder if all this hassle emailing them has just muddied the water , held them up ? Hints of not paying and contractors feeling they could be sat on a bad dept in the confusion because of a sea of respondence .

I know ideally it would be nice just to hand the keys over and await the call it’s ready to pick up .Agreeing to any betterment if it crops up while they are working on it .

 

[petem]

This is the relevant Y clause....

We will reduce the amount We will pay by no more than 30% if repairing or replacing would restore the following items to a better condition than prior to the loss or damage:

(a) protective covers and canopies;
(b) Machinery (excluding outboard motor), batteries and tenders;
(c) paintwork or other surface finish;
(d) upholstery and soft furnishings; or
(e) sails.

So, for example, if the engine needed a service before the accident and the repair effectively resulted in a fully serviced one, I think it would be totally acceptable for there to be a corresponding reduction in the claim paid.

 

[jfm]

I went through a 3 wire barbed wire fence after spinning off in a 6 month old Porsche .
The field was a water logged paddock .No injuries .Pre internet days .
Car drivable .Farmer pulled me out .
I drove it to nearest Porsche centre and handed the keys to the lady on reception and wrote down by insurance details and got a taxi home .
There was zero panel damage , dents etc but every panel inc every pain of glass ( inc mirrors ) light lenses had scratches and some deep where the barbs had run across .Two wheels and tyres where scratched .
It needed a glass out respray ( but zero panel replacements beating out )
New glass and light lenses not refit of what they took off and two new wheels and tyres .
I had one letter from the insurance Co saying they accepted the claim and another from the official Porsche body shop suggesting I paid for a another pair of tyres the good side ( something about equal tread depth ) and new wheels on the good side as seeing although not damaged they had been in an accident.Ins Co just said repaint those “ good two “ and refuted the new tyre argument quoting “ betterment “ they where the only prepared to replace the two scored by the wire barbs .

About 3 months later while passing I called in to get a time line on picking it up and was told / shown a stripped out shell “ we will ring you when are done “
5 month later I got the call “ it’s ready for collection “

When I arrived ( remember the only communication was 2 letters from them and one ad hock visit from me )
They just handed over the keys and off i went .
I did enquire about having to folk out for 1/2 the new wheel / tyre arrangement , the “betterment “to the body shop and they just shrugged there shoulders. I saw the bill some £18 K and the four new wheels n tyres were buried in there .


Ok 5 months was a long time but remember it wasn’t just a glass out repaint they had to supply new glass and lights to put back .Even the mirrors were replaced , too scratched up to repair .

Point is his I did not hassle them and the cold call into the body shop was just because I was in the area “ just passing “ 60 miles away from home .
No internet car forums and in those days .

Thing is I know this was a body shop a large one with maybe 50 cars in at once , with guys doing a bit on each each day , cars at various stages of tear down and parts fitted and paintwork etc, but you can’t expect them to do yours 24/7 and turn it around in 2/3 weeks .
Parts orders , insurance accessor ( your boat surveyors) engineers in the area , waiting for literally “ paint to dry “ properly etc etc .
There’s a school of thought I subscribe to of leaving professionals just to get on .I wonder if all this hassle emailing them has just muddied the water , held them up ? Hints of not paying and contractors feeling they could be sat on a bad dept in the confusion because of a sea of respondence .

I know ideally it would be nice just to hand the keys over and await the call it’s ready to pick up .Agreeing to any betterment if it crops up while they are working on it .

Is this whole thread some kind of verbal diarrhoea competition?

 

[petem]

Is this whole thread some kind of verbal diarrhoea competition?

Harsh, but fair

 

[jfm]

So, for example, if the engine needed a service before the accident and the repair effectively resulted in a fully serviced one, I think it would be totally acceptable for there to be a corresponding reduction in the claim paid.

Exactly Pete. I can’t tell for sure, but this whole thing might be about the insurer not paying this type of betterment. We can’t tell whether insurer is playing fair or not because of all the really dense fog and because we don’t have the relevant clause in the insurance policy. If insurer isn’t playing fair then I’d be happy to help OP.

 

[petem]

I’d be delighted to help but I can’t. I have read all this just now and I have no clue what is going on. 99% of what you have written is irrelevant. Like the blow by blow account of your day’s boating and the name of your dog.
If you can get to the point I’ll try to help, but the insurance company dispute is lost in thousands of words worth of verbal diarrhoea describing an engine problem that (I think, but who can tell) insurers have mostly paid for.

A shaggy dog story?

 

[jrudge]

The storey is confused.

There are only 3 parties here.

1. the OP
2. The insurance company
3. The repair centre

There is much reference to Princess - I can't see they care too much. The insurance company may well choose to pursue them if they thought it was a fault - but they don't SEEM to be party to this.

The boat seems to have suffered a relatively unspecified failure ( bellows) resulting in part sinking.

The insurers have authorised repair and repair has been done.

The issues seem

(a) the time taken - this seems excessive but we dont really know the story as to why
(b) the OP being asked for contribution - to me its a bit picky on their insurers side but I can see their point to some extent. Others have covered why
(c) compensation for loss of use. I believe you can get this if a 3rd party for example hit you, but not in this case.

If I were to OP I would explain clearly what happened, why it took so long and what he wants.

I would assume an insurers has an obligation to repair a boat ( or anything) for which there is a valid claim in a reasonable time. We dont know if the delay was them saying yes. or the repair company.

Had it taken 14 months for my boat to be repaired I would not be happy - but my redress would depend on why it took so long - which unless I am missing something we dont know.

 

[2013PrincessV39]

The storey is confused.

There are only 3 parties here.

1. the OP
2. The insurance company
3. The repair centre

There is much reference to Princess - I can't see they care too much. The insurance company may well choose to pursue them if they thought it was a fault - but they don't SEEM to be party to this.

The boat seems to have suffered a relatively unspecified failure ( bellows) resulting in part sinking.

The insurers have authorised repair and repair has been done.

The issues seem

(a) the time taken - this seems excessive but we dont really know the story as to why
(b) the OP being asked for contribution - to me its a bit picky on their insurers side but I can see their point to some extent. Others have covered why
(c) compensation for loss of use. I believe you can get this if a 3rd party for example hit you, but not in this case.

If I were to OP I would explain clearly what happened, why it took so long and what he wants.

I would assume an insurers has an obligation to repair a boat ( or anything) for which there is a valid claim in a reasonable time. We dont know if the delay was them saying yes. or the repair company.

Had it taken 14 months for my boat to be repaired I would not be happy - but my redress would depend on why it took so long - which unless I am missing something we dont know.

Hi All,

I apologise for overloading on info.

- the claim was accepted by insurers the same week, but then Escalated to the underwriting insurer, and that process took at least 4 weeks.

- the survey took another 2 weeks to action.

-seeking a yard to carry out the repair took 3 months, as each one did not meet the survey requirements, or the repair quote was amiss due to lack of knowledge (one claimed to have visited the boat, but had in fact just called another competing yard).

- after 3 - 4 months Princess accepted the repair job.

This is where weeks were spent between insurers/surveyor and Princess arguing the way to do the repair. Princess wanted new engines, but surveyor wanted long block strip and replace. The latter took longer and cost more in the end.

- The repair was underway in Late June. This is where nothing moved unless I made phone calls due to “bad internet, phone lines down, annual leave...” and a myriad of other excuses on both sides.

- boat is sea trialled and ready for delivery but now we are waiting the insurer to pay out final amount (admin)

THE QUESTION really is who holds these companies to acccount for taking this long, or is this all normal?

 

[Seastoke]

I put a Porsche through a hedge , I hope the bloke had his car insured.

 

[Portofino]

Is this whole thread some kind of verbal diarrhoea competition?

Nope .
I picked up on the fact OP removed his personal possessions, and the boat he thought was taken to a suitable repair centre .
Then hand the keys over and walk way and leave them all to it .
Sometimes any “ betterment “ a term I introduced on this thread is lost in the food chain of office minions .
But if you keep reminding them .......?
But as said it enters a process which takes time .
I was just questioning what was the benefit all the emails allegedly .
In the old days stuff got repaired and cars / boats handed back , once in the process .
No picture s , no email , no forums , no outside advisers to ask .
Just time and patience.

 

[Aardee]

Hi All,

I apologise for overloading on info.

- the claim was accepted by insurers the same week, but then Escalated to the underwriting insurer, and that process took at least 4 weeks.

- the survey took another 2 weeks to action.

-seeking a yard to carry out the repair took 3 months, as each one did not meet the survey requirements, or the repair quote was amiss due to lack of knowledge (one claimed to have visited the boat, but had in fact just called another competing yard).

- after 3 - 4 months Princess accepted the repair job.

This is where weeks were spent between insurers/surveyor and Princess arguing the way to do the repair. Princess wanted new engines, but surveyor wanted long block strip and replace. The latter took longer and cost more in the end.

- The repair was underway in Late June. This is where nothing moved unless I made phone calls due to “bad internet, phone lines down, annual leave...” and a myriad of other excuses on both sides.

- boat is sea trialled and ready for delivery but now we are waiting the insurer to pay out final amount (admin)

THE QUESTION really is who holds these companies to acccount for taking this long, or is this all normal?

What do you mean by "holds to account", are you seeking some form of recompense?

Also, I'm still struggling to see why Princess were involved, I'm sure Porsche had little interest in Portofino's farming exploits.