13A sockets onboard. Sanity check pls.
- Thread starter sarabande
- Start date
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Mostly the French use the same shore power outlets as UK use.
UK-WOOZY
Well-Known Member
sorry, i meant voltages. to step down to 240v
Stemar
Well-Known Member
French mains is 220v IIRC. In any case UK stuff mains works fine
One interesting little factoid: Don't know if it's still the case, but Belgian mains used to have a fuse in both live and neutral. I got very careful working on Belgian wiring!
One interesting little factoid: Don't know if it's still the case, but Belgian mains used to have a fuse in both live and neutral. I got very careful working on Belgian wiring!
johnalison
Well-Known Member
My Swedish boat came with unswitched continental sockets which I never got round to changing. In spite of plugging into various voltages and polarities in about seven countries I am still here to tell the tale. I don't much like the sockets but they have little sprung lids, which is handy.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I managed to have 35 minutes on the boat yesterday.
Here's a pic of the consumer unit.
I think that's a double pole one ?
If YES, do I buy double or single pole 13A sockets pls ? To be sure, to be sure.
Here's a pic of the consumer unit.
I think that's a double pole one ?
If YES, do I buy double or single pole 13A sockets pls ? To be sure, to be sure.
VicS
Well-Known Member
You have, from left to right
A 6 amp type B single pole circuit breaker
A 16 amp type B single pole circuit breaker
A double pole RCD with normal 30mA trip rating and max current rating of 25 amps
Whether to fit unswitched, single pole switched, or double pole switched sockets is your choice.
Single pole switched maybe best avoided if you are likely to encounter reversed polarity in the supply but a reversed polarity indicator and a polarity reversing adapter lead is probably a better solution.
UK-WOOZY
Well-Known Member
as my new RCD is single pole, should i get a double pole RCD
im using it fine in our yard atm
im using it fine in our yard atm
Channel Sailor
Well-Known Member
A single pole isolating switch on a socket outlet will switch the Live connection only. A double pole isolator (as found on a switched fuse spur) will isolate both the Live and neutral. Does this matter on a yacht I am not sure as I am not authority because I do not professionally install on yachts. However, on the pontoon end there will be a safety protection device called an RCD and that RCD will be double pole. This RCD safety device will trip if a small electrical current is detected flowing somewhere other than in the live and neutral (to earth for example). Also there will be a double pole isolator on the pontoon as well. The reason for having these pontoon end double pole switches is because the method of safety earthing used on pontoons means there could be a small electrical voltage present between the Neutral and earth, so it is safer for the safety devices and the isolators should isolate both the neutral and the live. Look for ”DP” in the description for socket outlets to find double pole. MK K2747WHI as an example. When you plug a plug out of a socket it is effectively double pole isolated the appliance anyway.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Your boat should have a DP RCD. The yard supply will have a DP RCD. AFAIK the plug in RCDs are DP (mine is)
What and where is this SP RCD ?
Channel Sailor
Well-Known Member
Double pole or single pole RCDs - An rcd will detect and trip out if a small electrical current flows between live and earth or neutral and earth. This would be a fault current. Small being 30mA which is enough to give a nasty/dangerous electrical shock to a human. With a single pole rcd the live wire only would be disconnected, which is ok if you know for sure the neutral is the same voltage potential as the earth (as in many Uk domestic homes). But for a uk marina (and should be the same for any up to date EU Marina) there is more of a risk of the neutral having a voltage difference to the earth wire, hence a double pole 30mA RCD is used at least somewhere. This double pole breaker isolating both the live and the neutral from the energy source. Leaving just the marina earth still connected through to the end point on board.
The MCBs (or fuse) on each circuit in the ”fuse box” or Consumer Unit on board are more about reducing fire risk from cables and components overheating as opposed to prevention of electrocution. Called overcurrent protection. But they still do help to reduce electrocution risk because if a live wire touched something that was earthed then such a lot of electricity flows within seconds that the MCB (often single pole) would trip off , which effectively removes the risk of being electrocuted by an earthed part becoming accidentally live, But bear in mind if the earth wire or earth path back to the power source is undersized or cannot be made a small enough resistance, then only an RCD will trip off even a dead short between live and earth at an appliance on board. As an example the reason for this because on a 16A circuit a live to neutral dead short might just about draw enough current through grossly undersized wiring (a stupidly long extension lead with poor connections for example) to trip a 16A MCB within a few seconds, but a dead short live to earth through this same stupid long undersized cable might not produce enough current flow for a fuse or MCB to trip for many seconds or even minutes. Note the earth wire is often half the size of the live or neutral wire in a typical cable, so less current flows in a dead short live to earth fault. It is usually necessary to have large enough diameter cables for MCBs and fuses so for a short circuit fault they can trip at their rated current in less than 1 second, otherwise the RCD is pretty much the sole safety protection device.
If the earth path back through the marina is completely broken then an MCB or fuse (without at RCD as well) will not trip off at all in the case of a live to earth fault in an appliance on board. This means in the type of fault the case of your heater, microwave or hot plate will at 230V and the water the Yacht is in and the pontoon metal work is at 0 volts, if these two are bridged by person then in the example above 16Aa has to flow for a few seconds before the MCB will switch off the power. But with a double RCD the person is protected because no more than 30mA will flow.
Some protection devices are combined RCD and Overcurrent in one module.
I am not an expert on boat side electrics but I would say that if you were using power from a suspect marina supply or something risky such as a 230V lead trailed from a club house socket, then having onboard wired in cabling and sockets with an earth wire and with your own 30mA double pole RCD on board would be very wise.
The MCBs (or fuse) on each circuit in the ”fuse box” or Consumer Unit on board are more about reducing fire risk from cables and components overheating as opposed to prevention of electrocution. Called overcurrent protection. But they still do help to reduce electrocution risk because if a live wire touched something that was earthed then such a lot of electricity flows within seconds that the MCB (often single pole) would trip off , which effectively removes the risk of being electrocuted by an earthed part becoming accidentally live, But bear in mind if the earth wire or earth path back to the power source is undersized or cannot be made a small enough resistance, then only an RCD will trip off even a dead short between live and earth at an appliance on board. As an example the reason for this because on a 16A circuit a live to neutral dead short might just about draw enough current through grossly undersized wiring (a stupidly long extension lead with poor connections for example) to trip a 16A MCB within a few seconds, but a dead short live to earth through this same stupid long undersized cable might not produce enough current flow for a fuse or MCB to trip for many seconds or even minutes. Note the earth wire is often half the size of the live or neutral wire in a typical cable, so less current flows in a dead short live to earth fault. It is usually necessary to have large enough diameter cables for MCBs and fuses so for a short circuit fault they can trip at their rated current in less than 1 second, otherwise the RCD is pretty much the sole safety protection device.
If the earth path back through the marina is completely broken then an MCB or fuse (without at RCD as well) will not trip off at all in the case of a live to earth fault in an appliance on board. This means in the type of fault the case of your heater, microwave or hot plate will at 230V and the water the Yacht is in and the pontoon metal work is at 0 volts, if these two are bridged by person then in the example above 16Aa has to flow for a few seconds before the MCB will switch off the power. But with a double RCD the person is protected because no more than 30mA will flow.
Some protection devices are combined RCD and Overcurrent in one module.
I am not an expert on boat side electrics but I would say that if you were using power from a suspect marina supply or something risky such as a 230V lead trailed from a club house socket, then having onboard wired in cabling and sockets with an earth wire and with your own 30mA double pole RCD on board would be very wise.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I am so glad I asked a simple question.
It's all beginning to make sense. Many thanks everyone. Double pole switched 13A sockets ordered
It's all beginning to make sense. Many thanks everyone. Double pole switched 13A sockets ordered
VicS
Well-Known Member
I am so glad I asked a simple question.
It's all beginning to make sense. Many thanks everyone. Double pole switched 13A sockets ordered
Good quality ones (eg MK) I hope not some cheap eBay garbage
Video showing the rubbish you could get if not careful:-
( BTW I recommend John Ward's videos covering all sorts of main electrical stuff)
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I went for these as I recognised the name. And bcs they have pretty little orange lights....
2 GANG DP SWITCHED SOCKET AND NEON 4306/3D By CRABTREE: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
(I did decline to use some old metal pattresses I have lying around, in favour of some new plastic ones.)
The John Ward videos have been marked for future use. Forensic electrics can be more fun and far more revealing than I imagined, evidently !
2 GANG DP SWITCHED SOCKET AND NEON 4306/3D By CRABTREE: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
(I did decline to use some old metal pattresses I have lying around, in favour of some new plastic ones.)
The John Ward videos have been marked for future use. Forensic electrics can be more fun and far more revealing than I imagined, evidently !
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PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I went for these as I recognised the name. And bcs they have pretty little orange lights....
2 GANG DP SWITCHED SOCKET AND NEON 4306/3D By CRABTREE: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
(I did decline to use some old metal pattresses I have lying around, in favour of some new plastic ones.)
The John Ward videos have been marked for future use. Forensic electrics can be more fun and far more revealing than I imagined, evidently !
Nothing wrong with Crabtree Tim
