12 year old Yanmar GM2 - things to look for

dylanwinter said:
of course I could buy this boat and motor it up and down the blackwater for a few days to see if it wants to break - if it will not break then I can keep it - if it breaks I can do the engine well bit

what worries me is that it might be fine until I get to some peaceful harbour in scotland and then have it decide to break - thinking bracket and Tohatsu as back-up.

Once bitten twice shy and all that

D
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The bit about a few days testing before making the trip is exactly what I will be doing before I head north for the journey to Wales.. If you go down that route make sure you check the fuel tank before you get to any bouncy weather.. Mate of mine found he'd got muck in the bottom of the fuel tank that only got stirred up and into the fuel supply when the level got low(ish) in a rough sea.

These engines aren't sentient beings waiting to throw in the towel at the most inconvenient time, however much we swear at them. They are just that - engines. A collection of carefully machined parts employing a generally simple method of converting fuel into motion

Partly swayed by yourself in an earlier incarnation I went FROM a recalcitrant outboard to an inboard with all those benefits of battery charging, safer fuel, etc.. Never looked back - even with Yanmars pricing.
 
dylanwinter said:
Katie L is perfect - I shall own her until I swallow the anchor or win the lottery - actually even if I win the lottery I will keep her.

The Centaur business is because there will be four adults and a labrador aboard this summer - for a short while there will be five adults and two dogs....

aaaagh!

Katie L is perfect for one and the occasional two but having spent two weekends daysailing with four of us aboard - she was well down on her marks at the stern. She was crowded and overloaded

Back to engines.... Yanmar spares....is this engine fully supported and are they really, really expensive or just really expensive
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Ah, I understand now.

Re Yanmar engines, I'm not very knowledgeable but soon will be. They've just fitted the third new 1GM10 into Mistral in under a year, but that's another story!

They do seem to have a good reputation though, especially if looked after. There are lots of non Yanmar brand aftermarket spares including cooling water exhaust injectors made in the US. Prices are much better than OEMs.

There is also an excellent knowledge base here on this forum and elsewhere on the 'net.

I don't think spares prices are any worse than other marine engine brands. I remember having to change the exhaust elbow on a 7.5hp single pot Volvo diesel in a Jaguar 25 in 1999. It cost £250!!! Shocking!!

Anyway best of luck with your search.
 
dylanwinter said:
Back to engines.... Yanmar spares....is this engine fully supported and are they really, really expensive or just really expensive
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Unspeakably expensive. Yanmar's spares pricing policy depends on latex gloves and a pot of KY jelly.

You can get service parts reasonably economically, but when you actually need to start replacing bits you are in a whole world of pain. Exhaust elbows? £180 each for mild steel. Valves? £20 each. The piddly little head on a 1GM10 gives little change from six flippin' hundred flippin' pounds.

As others have said, a well looked after one will be fine, but if there is anything dodgy about it you are going to be hurt. The only good aspect is that everything is available, albeit made in platinum by full-blooded members of European royal families only.
 
dylanwinter said:
I cried with frustration over that engine - I really cried. I was 57 years old and blub bing.

It cost me a £1000 and lost me 12 weeks sailing over two consecutive summers. . I promised myself that I would never, ever allow myself to get into the same position again. If some-one had walked up to me and offered me £5 to take the boat off my hands I would have taken them up on it. I was an utterly miserable time.

I am so much happier with my outboards. I feel safer than being dependent on one engine that has possibly been abused by another bloke. As for a 15 or 20hp outboard in a well being inadequate for a Centaur - well there is only one way of finding out.

My fear is that I will be up in orkney or Shetland and the thing will go pop

there is also the lobster pot factor.... and those scottish fishermen are blooming inconsiderate.

However, I will not remove a perfectly good engine but I will invest in a bloody good outboard bracket so at least I can have an engine I trust with me.

I got loads of very useful advice from MD1 lovers telling me what a great little immortal engine it was.

D
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But it is just like saying you won't buy a VW Polo because you once had trouble with a 1952 Ford 10.

A good rope cutter will deal with the lobster pots.
 
deepest apologies

theoldsalt said:
Is it only me or are others thinking....

For goodness sake Dylan go and buy a boat so we can help you solve actual problems rather than "is it or isn't it", "will it or won't it", "shall I or shall I not".
All very hypathetical but doesn't seem to go anyware. Follow your instincts and make a decision. That's what most of us do.
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please feel free to ignore all future threads from me

although relying on instinct sounds most exciting

thanks to those who are reminding me why inboards make me nervous

they give me a nasty twitch in the wallet

I wish that I had asked a few more hypothetical questions about MD1's before getting involved

I have learned a huge amount about Centaurs by asking a few questions on here

d
 
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prv said:
It's not a permanent change - Dylan has said he plans to die with (preferably not in) Katie L.

The Centaur is a means to an end for one summer of being bashed against Scottish harbour walls with four adults and a large dog on board.

Pete
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In that case, get a Centaur with an half decent inboard - it will almost certainly last one season. Spend £100 mounting Katie L's current outboard on a bracket as a backup. It's like carrying a spare tyre to get you home in the event of a puncture - it's mostly there for reassurance but could actually save you a heap of hassle.
 
JumbleDuck said:
You can get service parts reasonably economically, but when you actually need to start replacing bits you are in a whole world of pain. Exhaust elbows? £180 each for mild steel. Valves? £20 each. The piddly little head on a 1GM10 gives little change from six flippin' hundred flippin' pounds.
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Fortunately we never needed anything other than standard service parts (for which there were and are third party equivalents for reasonable prices) so never discovered this aspect of Yanmar ownership.

Does it still apply if you buy the parts from the people who maintain the refrigeration units on the front of articulated lorry trailers? I believe many of those are in fact 1GM and 2GM engines...

Pete
 
planteater said:
In that case, get a Centaur with an half decent inboard - it will almost certainly last one season. Spend £100 mounting Katie L's current outboard on a bracket as a backup. It's like carrying a spare tyre to get you home in the event of a puncture - it's mostly there for reassurance but could actually save you a heap of hassle.
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centaur with a half decent inboard is around £6,000

Centaur with a dead inboard is around £1500 to £2,000

and the problem with a half indecent inboard is that you never know when it is going to do choose the moment to remember that it is only half decent.
 
Dylan,

I have to say that you are at risk of becoming the "new" Dan Crane, asking loads of theoretical questions but not actually buying anything. Yes, I know Dan now has a boat & I look forward to the time when you do too.
 
prv said:
Does it still apply if you buy the parts from the people who maintain the refrigeration units on the front of articulated lorry trailers? I believe many of those are in fact 1GM and 2GM engines...
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An interesting thought. I am fortunate enough to have relatives in America, who visit often. Yanmar spares are around half the cost there ...
 
Searush said:
Dylan,

I have to say that you are at risk of becoming the "new" Dan Crane, asking loads of theoretical questions but not actually buying anything. Yes, I know Dan now has a boat & I look forward to the time when you do too.
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I apologise for using the forum as a way of gathering information from people who are willing to share their knowledge

please feel free to ignore the threads

Dylan
 
dylanwinter said:
centaur with a half decent inboard is around £6,000

Centaur with a dead inboard is around £1500 to £2,000

and the problem with a half indecent inboard is that you never know when it is going to do choose the moment to remember that it is only half decent.
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Alternatively, buy an immaculate £10k Centaur and sell it cheap for £9k next summer. Low risk and low overall cost. More importantly, low effort.
 
dylanwinter said:
I cried with frustration over that engine - I really cried. I was 57 years old and blub bing.

It cost me a £1000 and lost me 12 weeks sailing over two consecutive summers. . I promised myself that I would never, ever allow myself to get into the same position again. If some-one had walked up to me and offered me £5 to take the boat off my hands I would have taken them up on it. I was an utterly miserable time.

I am so much happier with my outboards. I feel safer than being dependent on one engine that has possibly been abused by another bloke. As for a 15 or 20hp outboard in a well being inadequate for a Centaur - well there is only one way of finding out.

My fear is that I will be up in orkney or Shetland and the thing will go pop

there is also the lobster pot factor.... and those scottish fishermen are blooming inconsiderate.

However, I will not remove a perfectly good engine but I will invest in a bloody good outboard bracket so at least I can have an engine I trust with me.

I got loads of very useful advice from MD1 lovers telling me what a great little immortal engine it was.

D
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Its funny. Although I have always though your well plan a bit daft, I will be a bit disappointed if you don't do it.


Your fears are based on one particular bad experience. Which was with a 40 plus year old engine. A world of difference from a 12 yr old.
The odd thing is outboards are much more likely to be temperamental and suffer problems. Very susceptible to fuel issues.

My prediction is you will be very surprised by the 12 year old diesel’s reliability and fall in love.
Your diesel phobia will be cured.

Bottom line old buggered engines of any variety are the problem.

A few bucks spent having a mechanical inspection carried out may help reassure you. Followed by a full service.
If you don’t want a full inspection by a mechanic. Take an oil sample and have it tested. Prior to service.
Water or metal will show up in the oil if there is a serious concern. With gaskets or bearings.

Ether way I look forward to seeing your films of the northern waters
 
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Such a touchy-feely person as Dylan should probably have nothing to with hard inanimate objects as diesel engines - an immiscible mix of oil & water.

I had a Yanmar 2GM20 for 10 years, it was a deeply unsatisfactory engine and, when it reached about 10K hours, I replaced it with another Yanmar. Any vertical twin is cursed from inception with a problem of primary imbalance so they can never be as quiet as one with more cylinders or a boxer configuration. My 2GM always started first push (except when it had been left for 4-6 months), it did expire in the Raz du Sein (I'd recommend the Pentland Firth as an ideal alternative for Dylan), necessitating an all night sail down the S side of the Chausee and a spinnaker drift back on the N side till I got a pluck into le Conquet from a FV. All its life it suffered from the traditional weakness of all the GM series, leaking from the water passage into the rear cylinder. After the Raz de Sein incident I always carried a spare head and exhaust gasket. It was a 90' job to have the head off and replaced. I finally cured the problem by having the head milled for €80 in le Foret Fouesnant. and never had to use the head gasket again, though the pitting in #2 bore was an excellent horror-example for all prospective boat-owners.
Strangely enough it never refused to start, even on one cylinder.
The other interesting habit it had was for all cooling water to stop, either due to a never-discovered air leak in the system, failed impeller or plain internal wear in the waterpump. As it took about 40' to change the impeller and about 40" to change the pump, I carried a spare raw water pump as well. One could rebuild that with all necessary replacement parts at one's leisure.
The engine was thoroughly abused during its 7000 hours in my exploitation - the alternator was gradually increased in size from the original 35 amp Hitachi, via a 90 amp Lucas to a 120 amp Magnetti Marelli - and it never had a polyvee belt system - I soon dropped the totally inadequate standard belt and used a Gates-type heavy-duty serrated belt running in machined-from-solid pulleys (Yanmar have a horrible habit of using totally inadequate pulleys made of a sandwich of two pieces of tinplate).
Yanmar gearboxes have been (correctly IMHO) castigated for losing one or another of their gears. In my case it was forward gear; not down to any of the esoteric failures such as a glazed cone or broken cable, but due to a worn selector fork - corrected between tides on the sand off Castletownberehaven - by merely reversing the fork.
Aware of Dylan's predilection for the totally, rather than the merely deeply unsatisfactory; I hesitate to recommend the Yanmar 2GM because it's more effective than the originally fitted Volvo or his proposed nadir of a well-mounted outboard (having had one I can vouch for how useless one of those is when really needed).
I even started it once by hand, in St Helen's Pool. I do have to insert a proviso - one has to be terrified, adrenaline-high and totally uncaring about the damage being done to one's hands as well as use the decompressors.

The greatest number I've ever had on my 2nd, 22' boat was 4 adults 4 boys, 1 teenage girl and two Labradors - the big problem was the girl, we just pushed the Labs over the side when we got to up the river to Cotehele and confined them to the towed dinghy on the way back down the river (until they were dry).

Good luck Dylan - on past form I fear that you and any engine will have an hate-hate relationship but a 2GM20 may have too many sterling qualities to be really easily hateful. ;-)
 
Uricanejack said:
The odd thing is outboards are much more likely to be temperamental and suffer problems. Very susceptible to fuel issues.
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Why should a 4-stroke outboard be more susceptible to fuel problems? Petrol doesn't seem to suffer from bugs, blocked filters, black gunge, water contamination, and mine easily lasts from one season to the next despite all the dire warnings of a 6 week can life. Maybe your fears are based on one particular bad experience.
 
Charles reed

in your very useful (occasionally frightening) post about Yanmars

you wrote this about engine wells

(having had one I can vouch for how useless one of those is when really needed).

I should like to hear more of your inadequate well stories

please tell me more....

Dylan
 
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