10m Boat length in Greece (and the Med)

[Ravi]

Hi,

I'm looking for a boat around the 10m mark to cruise in Greece and the wider Med over the next few years, and there are plenty of great boats for sale in my budget.

How much of a factor is the 10m limit? My understanding is that anything under 10m means I can skip all the formalities with the port police whenever I come and go from a harbour? is that right?


In general, how strict are the authorities about the 10m limit? Do they adhere rigidly to the LOA on the boat papers or could I pass a 10.13 meter Westerly W33 / Discus off as "under 10m"?

Apart from the additional port formalities, I also imagine that, over the years, that 0.1 metre difference could stretch my cruising budget a tiny bit over the years.

I would love to hear from those who know how much importance I should place on this 10m limit - if I have to decide between two boats which meet all my cruising needs.

Thanks.

Rav.

 

[BrianH]

How much of a factor is the 10m limit? My understanding is that anything under 10m means I can skip all the formalities with the port police whenever I come and go from a harbour? is that right?

No. I have cruised the Adriatic and Ionian with sub-ten metre boats and have found there is no distinction for length when formally entering - all foreign yachts must conform to the declaration procedure where it applies. The only concession is for berthing costs, which are based on LOA, where both marinas and harbours charge by length. In Greece the DEKPA is only required for 10m and above vessels.

Moorings usually have stern-to - or bow-to - posts or lines with the former often having 2 metre steps so that anything over ten metres has proportionately more cost.

The Italian register is only open for 10 metres and over so Italian yachts less than that length cannot have registration documentation as others can. But all engines there are sold with registered documents that serve as documentation when formally entering their neighbouring countries.

I decided many years ago that I could comfortably live for a summer on a 31' boat (9.5m) and keep my costs down by doing so as my Italian marina has a significant increase from its 10m to 12m boxes ... Not just mooring but generally with maintenance too.

Edit:
If your boat will be UK registered there should be no need to declare entry to other EU countries whatever your length - except Croatia, which will retain its entry procedures - and costs - for all craft of any size.

 

[charles_reed]

No. I have cruised the Adriatic and Ionian with sub-ten metre boats and have found there is no distinction for length when formally entering - all foreign yachts must conform to the declaration procedure where it applies. The only concession is for berthing costs, which are based on LOA, where both marinas and harbours charge by length. In Greece the DEKPA is only required for 10m and above vessels.

Moorings usually have stern-to - or bow-to - posts or lines with the former often having 2 metre steps so that anything over ten metres has proportionately more cost.

The Italian register is only open for 10 metres and over so Italian yachts less than that length cannot have registration documentation as others can. But all engines there are sold with registered documents that serve as documentation when formally entering their neighbouring countries.

I decided many years ago that I could comfortably live for a summer on a 31' boat (9.5m) and keep my costs down by doing so as my Italian marina has a significant increase from its 10m to 12m boxes ... Not just mooring but generally with maintenance too.

Edit:
If your boat will be UK registered there should be no need to declare entry to other EU countries whatever your length - except Croatia, which will retain its entry procedures - and costs - for all craft of any size.

To amplify Barnac1e's reply - in Greece, a sub 10m boat definitely escapes the need for a DEKPA and the navigation tax, but it still has to go through entry and exit formalities when crossing borders and pay port dues. In nearly all marinas there is a step change between <10m and the more common higher lengths (except in Kotor where they start the charges @ 18m.)

In the wider context of "the Med", the variances between the 34 countries bordering that sea, are bewilderingly different as are boating costs. Generalising wildly, the lowest costs are on the N African coast and the highest around Italy (Marina Grande in Capri charges €150 a night in season for 10 -12m). Any cost-savings (in Africa) have to be discounted in the multiple administrative procedures and their attendant requirements for baksheesh. Probably the most relaxed (bureaucratically) is Italy, until one gets to a Lega Navale marina - on those occasions wearing a blue ensign can help.

I suggest you look at Jim Baerselman's site.

 

[Tony Cross]

Those friends with sub-10m boats have found that not having (or needing) a DEKPA in Greece often creates more hassle than having one. Many port police expect every boat to have a DEKPA and are often surprised when a sub-10m owner doesn't have one. It can take a lot of explaining and a couple of phone calls by the port police before they agree that the boat-owner is correct.

 

[Tranona]

As others have said, not abig deal. The DEKPA issue is not really a problem apart from the cost of buying one. The biggest potential cost differences are in berthing, cranage, storage etc where charges tend to be related to length. However the bands vary from place to place but often increase disproportionately above 12m.

Officials usually use the loa on the registration document as a basis for charging, although some marinas may measure particularly those that charge by area (l*b). Others may charge by berth size so loa is irrelevant.

If you are registering your boat on the SSR you specify the length so it makes sense keep it under 10m if it is believable. No good though if your boat is clearly much longer!

 

[Ravi]

Thanks for the many helpful replies -:

Barnace1 said "In Greece the DEKPA is only required for 10m and above vessels."
Yes, I was thinking of avoiding the hassle of having to seek out the local marina / harbour officials at each stop - rather than transiting borders, which would be much more infrequent. It sounds like this is not a significant headache and not something that should influence my selection of boat - and can even lead to more hassle.

I appreciate that the general maintenance, lifting and upkeep costs of that extra 0.1 meter are a factor, but if I get the 10.01 metre boat, I guess I will just have to have one less beer a day!


Thanks for all the advice.

Ravi

 

[Sybarite]

As others have said, not abig deal. The DEKPA issue is not really a problem apart from the cost of buying one. The biggest potential cost differences are in berthing, cranage, storage etc where charges tend to be related to length. However the bands vary from place to place but often increase disproportionately above 12m.

Officials usually use the loa on the registration document as a basis for charging, although some marinas may measure particularly those that charge by area (l*b). Others may charge by berth size so loa is irrelevant.

If you are registering your boat on the SSR you specify the length so it makes sense keep it under 10m if it is believable. No good though if your boat is clearly much longer!

In France most marinas have tables which show the total overall length, including pulpit overhang. I normally have a discussion because I have a non standard pulpit which brings the LOA down a category.

 

[nimbusgb]

11.6m boat. Dekpa has 6 stamps in it for the past 8 years.

'Seeking out port authorities' is a waste of time and effort! Just occasionally someone will wander down a quay and ask you to report to the office.

Very, very occasionally.

 

[BrianH]

I appreciate that the general maintenance, lifting and upkeep costs of that extra 0.1 meter are a factor, but if I get the 10.01 metre boat, I guess I will just have to have one less beer a day!

Not necessary if you fill out your Part III application and get SSR registration document of 9.9m, which is what most authorities go by. Providing, of course, it isn't too much in excess with a visual glance.

 

[charles_reed]

Never experienced any hassle (and I've been round Crete once and up and down the N coast 3 times, apart from the mainland, most of the Aegean Islands and all the Ionian) through not having a DEKPA.
I'd totally agree with "not seeking out port authorities" but nowadays there is a sadly increasing tendency for them to seek you out and demand you report and pay. They're particularly keen round Crete. The pain, with having a DEKPA, is seeking out the tax office to pay your €0.88 fee - they usually seem to be in a non-public-transport area of the town and have extraordinarily short opening times.
IMHO having a boat in which you are comfortable, crew-free and berthing-cost reduced is far more important than any bureaucratic mazes (or their avoidance).

 

[Jamesuk]

Below 10m they might give you a free berth. Go to Sunsail and get a 32i or perhaps a Sigma 33

 

[Ahab&Bligh]

This summer- in Ionion, we haven't seen much of port police. In previous years they have been more enthusiastic in wandering up and down quay. They have not hassled us , nor us them. Last year they thought they would be lucky if they still kept their computers.

 

[Tony Cross]

Never experienced any hassle (and I've been round Crete once and up and down the N coast 3 times, apart from the mainland, most of the Aegean Islands and all the Ionian) through not having a DEKPA.
I'd totally agree with "not seeking out port authorities" but nowadays there is a sadly increasing tendency for them to seek you out and demand you report and pay. They're particularly keen round Crete. The pain, with having a DEKPA, is seeking out the tax office to pay your €0.88 fee - they usually seem to be in a non-public-transport area of the town and have extraordinarily short opening times.
IMHO having a boat in which you are comfortable, crew-free and berthing-cost reduced is far more important than any bureaucratic mazes (or their avoidance).

If you have to pay the €0.88 tax ask at the tax office if you can buy several (10 for €8.80 for example). Some tax officers will sell you several and some won't, but if you can get a bunch of them you'll save a walk to the tax office for the next few times you have to pay....

 

[duncan99210]

If you have to pay the €0.88 tax ask at the tax office if you can buy several (10 for €8.80 for example). Some tax officers will sell you several and some won't, but if you can get a bunch of them you'll save a walk to the tax office for the next few times you have to pay....

We've only ever been asked for the 0.88 fee once. It was in Athens, the Port Poice told us where the office was, then told us they were on strike and to forget it......

 

[vyv_cox]

In the five or six years we have been in Greece our DEKPA is more than half full but we have never been asked for, or paid, the €0.88 tax.

 

[PLEIAS]

According to the plans of the goverment in GREECE for the levy on leisure crafts as of 01/01/2014 sailingboats 7-8 200, 8-10 300, 10-12 400, above 12m 100/metre.Boats with foreign flags will be granted a discount of 30% on the above prices if they can prove that they berth permanent within the greek waters.More details will be posted when the legislature will be aproved by the parliament in the following days.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Good advice above. If you want a reasonably definitive story about Greek regulations, see www.jimbsail.info/greece. There are similar Croatia and Turkey pages.

A quote from the top of the Greek page:

Note. Greece has intrusive regulations governing cruising boats, including local boats and those from the EU. Regulations are not published in English, and during 2013 they were being revised. Practice in applying them varies from region to region. In spite of this uncertainty, very few visiting boats suffer any form of sanctions. Known traps which may give rise to un-expected expenses are listed below.

 

[affinite]

According to the plans of the goverment in GREECE for the levy on leisure crafts as of 01/01/2014 sailingboats 7-8 200, 8-10 300, 10-12 400, above 12m 100/metre.Boats with foreign flags will be granted a discount of 30% on the above prices if they can prove that they berth permanent within the greek waters.More details will be posted when the legislature will be aproved by the parliament in the following days.

Wasnt this levy for Powerboats and didn't apply to Sailing boats under 15m.
Has something changed ?

 

[Tony Cross]

According to the plans of the goverment in GREECE for the levy on leisure crafts as of 01/01/2014 sailingboats 7-8 200, 8-10 300, 10-12 400, above 12m 100/metre.Boats with foreign flags will be granted a discount of 30% on the above prices if they can prove that they berth permanent within the greek waters.More details will be posted when the legislature will be aproved by the parliament in the following days.

Are you sure about those numbers? if true it means a 12m yacht will pay €400 and a 13M yacht €1300!

 

[jimbaerselman]

Wasnt this levy for Powerboats and didn't apply to Sailing boats under 15m.
Has something changed ?

Yes. Change is proposed. Pleias kindly sent me full details in Greek. When the law is passed, we aim to have a precis available on the public pages of the Cruising Association web site.

Meanwhile a translation precis is available at www.cruising.org.uk/ in the "news section". The eventually approved version may differ from this precis.