Yachts for sale in Greece... to be avoided? Or bargains if you dare?

[thecommander]

SWMBO and I have this grand plan to quit our jobs, sell up and go full-time cruising around the Mediterranean for a couple of years. After that we would sail the boat back to the UK ourselves.

At the moment it's all pie in the sky dreamland stuff but the more we watch of La Vagabonde, Wicked Salty, SailLife and others, the more convinced we become on actually doing it.

Our top end budget for a boat is around £20k with another £3-4k for updating sails and standing rigging (if needed), fixing any engine issues (if needed), adding wind turbine and adding a water marker. For £20k we'd want a late 90s / early 2000s boat, around the 32ft mark with a forward cabin with double berth, aft cabin with double and aft heads.

As it's nearly impossible to get what we want with that budget the UK, I've been studying the prices of Mediterranean boats, particularly those in Greece, and on the surface it seems there are lots of bargains to be had, e.g a 2001 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 32 for £20k. Similar boats in the UK go for around £35k. No doubt these are highly used and abused charter boats, so we'd get anything professionally surveyed, with particular attention to the keel, hull, standing rigging, perhaps having the keel x-ray inspected.

Technical surveys aside, are these Mediterranean boats worth a punt, or should they be avoided at all costs? Can buying abroad be more difficult because of the language barrier? How do you ensure the boat you are buying abroad hasn't been stolen? What happens if you later find out the boat you have bought was stolen? I understand (sorry, correct me if I'm wrong) that there's still alot of corruption in Greece, so who knows what could happen when you hand over a wallop of cash.

Interested to hear readers opinions.

 

[macd]

You can save yourselves at least £4K by forgetting about a wind gen and watermaker for the Med. The former is rarely much use and the latter isn't necessary, unless perhaps you plan to spend extended peiods off the African coast. Solar panels are the way to go for energy.

As to buying what might quite possibly an ex-charter boat, plenty of people have done so and been happy with the outcome. I daresay some will be along to amplify. Plenty are not ex-charter, too.

Forget x-ray inspections, unless you need some of Greece's excellent and reasonably-priced dental work. The are good surveyors in Greece, several of them Brits.

Language generally isn't a problem: English is widely spoken in Greece, particularly be people dealing routinely with the sailing community. You may even find yourself dealing with an English broker. Off the top of my head I'd say you're no more likely to encounter a stolen boat for sale here than you would be in the UK.

 

[jordanbasset]

Bought my boat a couple of months ago in Greece, went very smoothly, was through a broker. 3 years ago sold my own boat in Greece without a broker and also no problems

 

[duncan99210]

The only thing you really need to be wary of in Greece is buying a Greek registered ex-charter boat. The chances are that it will not have had VAT paid on it, so you'll have to include that in your calculations. Watch the market: if the boats been for sale for a fair time, then it will inevitably be in need of a fair bit of tlc before you could sail it away.
I'm not sure why you'd think of trying to get X-rays of the keel. Even if you could find a company that'd take and interpret them for you the problem (if any) with keels tends to lie inside the boat with the bolts and grp structure they're bolted to. The condition of them can be assessed by a competent surveyor, of which there are plenty in Greece.
There's an extra advantage to buying out there. The chances are that the boat will already be sorted for Med sailing in terms of shade, fridge, battery bank and so on.
Rather than a watermaker, which isn't really needed in the Med, I'd make sure that there's an electric anchor windlass, as you'll find yourselves using the anchor a good deal, either for anchoring off or for mooring on town quays. If the boat doesn't have solar panels, fit them rather than a wind generator which will not give you a decent return on your investment in the Med.

 

[Tranona]

Echo macd. There is a huge choice of boats in Greece. Probably the best area to search is the Ionian - Preveza, Levkas and Corfu where you will find brokers, private sellers, charter companies and the boats generally have an easier life because of the light winds and relatively short distances between ports. English widely spoken and many boats will be UK owned or N European. This is a mixed blessing as often an absentee owner equals neglect.

£20k is a bit on the low side for a good post 2000 boat, and 32' on the small side. You will soon find living on that size cramped unless it is one of the modern more spacious boats such as the Bav 33 jordanbasset has just bought. Bavaria 34 from early 2000s is just about the best compromise - although we had a 37 which was excellent.. The key things on equipment are fridge, good motor and batteries, windlass, bimini, wind scoop, fans and most of these should be on the boat. don't bother with wind generator (what wind?) and water is freely available so watermaker, particularly on a small boat is a PITA.

As ever, watch paperwork. If it is a Greek boat it will need deregistering as will other European state registered boats. Bit slow but you get good title and can then register on the SSR. Older ex charter boats may not have VAT receipts as up to 2003 they were sold VAT free after charter work, and for some years after paperwork was sloppy. However, more recently sold boats should have a VAT receipt from the charter operator to the first private owner. Having said that nobody is really bothered about inspecting VAT - more interested in registration and insurance. All should have a good trail of Bills of Sale (with umpteen stamps from the Port Police!) and a certificate of registration/deregistration if Greek.

Be wary of N european boats that have got there slowly on their own bottoms. These are often on their last legs, owners having had their 10 years in paradise and have retired back "home2, leaving the well worn boat to its chances. Potentially good if you like fixing old boats in the sun, but not good if you want to enjoy the good life!

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Language is not a problem, you will find that there are thousands of Brits in Greece working on bars and boat charter companies, (there are more Brits in Greece than Greeks in the UK). The boats there are catered for the Med and therefore equipped with solar panels, electric windlass etc (deep waters). I agree with others here that you need to be careful if you decide to buy a boat that arrived from a north European countries as most have reached the end of their lives and have not been designed for the Med and still the owners ask for too much money. The Greek bureaucracy can be painful but the broker will sort it out.

 

[jordanbasset]

What you can do is go and stay somewhere like Lefkas for a week and arrange to look at lots of boats (after doing your internet research). As others have said there are many boats within a 30 minute drive of there for sale. It will give you an idea of what is available and more importantly the condition of it. Even if you do not buy anything you will have had a nice holiday. I would be upfront with the brokers to say you are at an early stage but I suspect they will understand that and be helpful to you.
Agree with others about the watermaker, although the boat I bought has actually got one, it was never a priority for me. An older boat may already have solar panels, mine was only 2 years old and they had been fitted.
Other extra which if included will save you money are a dinghy and outboard. Also we find a good big bimini essential, preferably with side flaps. Again these are personal choices but just something to bear in mind when comparing prices of different boats.

 

[thecommander]

Thanks for the replies. All very reassuring. I reckon we're a year or two from doing it, but it's good to investigate the options. That said I'd be out tomorrow if SWMBO gave the go ahead...

I see your point re 32ft, however we've gotten used to 20-23 ft boats over the last 4 years. Moving up another 10ft will feel luxurious. I suppose another aspect of wanting a smaller boat, is the affordability of berthing it back in the UK. Anything bigger than 32ft becomes silly money in the Solent.

In terms of the watermaker, I suppose we want to avoid trips to marinas and become self sufficient as possible hence wind gen aswell but I take your point with lack of wind in parts.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Check out Flotilla holiday and bareboat charter company's boat list first ,Do not contact brokers as they will legally have a interest and % of sale .BEWARE of a broker with the initials G.V.
When I was looking, all yacht could be bought several thousand euro cheaper by cutting out brokers in Greece.
Alimos marina close to Athens would be a good place to start.

 

[macd]

In terms of the watermaker, I suppose we want to avoid trips to marinas and become self sufficient as possible hence wind gen aswell but I take your point with lack of wind in parts.

Greece has relatively few marinas, and most of those are concentrated around Athens. Berthing is generally on the hook (good anchorages are plentiful), or on town quays, of which there are many. The fees for town quays are small and often not levied at all. Many have water, some have electricity. This is why there's little need for a watermaker. I'd guess that half are decommisioned on the relatively few boats which have them.

 

[Mistroma]

Thanks for the replies. All very reassuring. I reckon we're a year or two from doing it, but it's good to investigate the options. That said I'd be out tomorrow if SWMBO gave the go ahead...

I see your point re 32ft, however we've gotten used to 20-23 ft boats over the last 4 years. Moving up another 10ft will feel luxurious. I suppose another aspect of wanting a smaller boat, is the affordability of berthing it back in the UK. Anything bigger than 32ft becomes silly money in the Solent.

In terms of the watermaker, I suppose we want to avoid trips to marinas and become self sufficient as possible hence wind gen aswell but I take your point with lack of wind in parts.

An extra water tank and economy of use will pay more dividends than a watermaker. We haven't sailed in Greece for a few years but might head that way this year. We spent most of last year summer in Balearics and didn't spend a single night in a marina. We popped in to buy water a few times and I suspect that the cost for a few months came to about 20-30 euro.

We carry an extra 150 litres in containers in the bilges. An extra tank would be more convenient but the containers fill the space it would take.

A wind gen. is a very poor investment in relation to solar panels, even in NW Scotland. It's not exactly a place that's known for calm weather and lots of sunshine. Only buy a wind gen once you have no more space for solar panels. Even then, probably better to fix alternator charging and battery capacity before buying a wind gen.

 

[vyv_cox]

Greece has relatively few marinas, and most of those are concentrated around Athens. Berthing is generally on the hook (good anchorages are plentiful), or on town quays, of which there are many. The fees for town quays are small and often not levied at all. Many have water, some have electricity. This is why there's little need for a watermaker. I'd guess that half are decommisioned on the relatively few boats which have them.

+1 We have been in the Med for ten years, seven of them in Greece. We don't have a watermaker and spend a lot of time at anchor but it is rare for our tank to be less than half full. We find it important to learn to be frugal with water, dating back in our case to camping when all water had to be carried from a tap in containers. Get used to washing dishes in a pint of water, showering less frequently, drinking only beer.

 

[NealB]

I bought a boat in Rhodes in 2002, and brought it back to the UK.

The deal was straightforward, with the charming Greek owner.

At that time, it was, compared to UK, a bargain.

However, I've just had a nose around apolloduck for boats currently for sale in Greece, and I really do not see anything that looks like an oustanding bargain.

I'd second the suggestion above, about having a boat searching holiday based in Levkas.

Happy hunting!

 

[Jamesuk]

bargain

 

[thecommander]

This is the boat in question: http://www.ydyachts.com/sailing-yachts/sailing-yachts-up-to-34-feet/item/14-jeanneau-sun-odyssey-322

No VAT paid though.

 

[mjcoon]

We find it important to learn to be frugal with water, dating back in our case to camping when all water had to be carried from a tap in containers. Get used to washing dishes in a pint of water, showering less frequently, drinking only beer.

That's how flotilla sailing used to be when we started, too! (I took my own folding water carrier.)

Mike.

 

[Jamesuk]

This is the boat in question: http://www.ydyachts.com/sailing-yachts/sailing-yachts-up-to-34-feet/item/14-jeanneau-sun-odyssey-322

No VAT paid though.

Have fun http://www.keatesferrisyachts.com/news/2015/06/08/buying-boathave-you-considered-its-vat-status/

 

[Tranona]

This is the boat in question: http://www.ydyachts.com/sailing-yachts/sailing-yachts-up-to-34-feet/item/14-jeanneau-sun-odyssey-322

No VAT paid though.

That is quite normal as VAT will be added at the final agreed price at the going rate (currently 23%) and you will get a VAT receipt. Asking prices are quoted in this way because if the boat is sold to another commercial operator, the VAT will be recoverable.

If you are thinking of buying a specific charter boat that is still in charter it would make sense to charter it for a week, perhaps with an agreement of a refund of all or part of the fee if you buy. Then you will find out whether you like the boat, identify problems, and if you do it before the end of the season you will know the condition of the boat close to the exchange. It would also make sense to then be on hand when the boat finishes its chartering. Downside of buying at the end of the season is that you have the winter storage to pay. However many charters finish in September, but it is still reasonable sailing until early November, so you would get a chance of immediate usage.

BTW a boat that has been in continuous charter for 15 years needs very careful inspection. The usual lifecycle of the top charter operators is 6 seasons, but some boats get recycled as "budget" boats. The basic structures stand up OK , but things like electrics, water systems, upholstery, sails get a hammering. Engines are usually OK as they do lots of steady motoring. 600+ hours a year is not unusual and it is likely that a boat that age has had a new or reconditioned engine.

 

[TQA]

Get solar panels not a wind genny.

Increase the water tankage rather than a watermaker.

Look for some elses dream gone sour that already has the work done.

 

[chrishelen]

I envy you, that was our plan until our little miracle came along, did briefly contemplate doing it baby and all but, just seems like hard work.