Report pushes for light dues and registration for leisure boaters

[lenseman]

. . . the DVLA management continued (and continues) to set performance targets for its penalty collectors that are based on its old, inflated figures, and that can only be met by collecting penalties from motorists who have not actually done anything wrong!

Hmmmm Tell me how that works then?

 

[timbartlett]

Hmmmm Tell me how that works then?

Well, in my particular case, I sold a car, and sent off all the documentation to the DVLA (including the old tax disc, which still had 11 months to run). A few weeks later I got the tax refund. Several months later, I got a demand for "arrears" of tax, and a "penalty".

I thought at first that it was simply a mistake, and said so. But various levels of officialdom all insisted that it couldn't possibly be a mistake. Eventually, they accepted that the car wasn't mine and that I didn't owe any tax, but they still kept after me for the "penalty" (for late payment of tax that I never owed!).

I resisted them for almost a year. I reckon that the time, aggro, and expense probably added up to about £2k -- but I don't believe in giving in to crooks.

Eventually, they took me to court, at which point the judge dismissed the case.

I subsequently discovered that the main point of taking me to court was that it insulated them against the possibility of being investigated by the ombudsman.

Almost anything involving a "fixed penalty" notice is potentially open to the same kind of scam, simply because most people either find it quicker and cheaper to pay up than to fight the mindless mass of officialdom, or because we, as a nation, are too cowed to resist.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Almost anything involving a "fixed penalty" notice is potentially open to the same kind of scam, simply because most people either find it quicker and cheaper to pay up than to fight the mindless mass of officialdom, or because we, as a nation, are too cowed to resist.

The English Bill of Rights of 1689 forbids the application of fines without the recourse to court. The system now in place applies extra penalties if you decide to challenge a fix penalty, which is against the Bill of Rights.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Well, in my particular case, I sold a car, and sent off all the documentation to the DVLA (including the old tax disc, which still had 11 months to run). A few weeks later I got the tax refund. Several months later, I got a demand for "arrears" of tax, and a "penalty".

I had a demand for back tax and a penalty for a classic car, which I take offroad each winter. Eventually they conceded that as they had sent me a cheque for 5 months' tax, I must have told them. Their entire attitude, though, is "you must be guilty because we've got you on our list of guilty people and you wouldn't be thee if you weren't guilty."

Another big DVLA money earner is their demand for £100 penalties for cars which have been SORNed but for which they have lost the paperwork. They claim that to avoid this penalty you must query them if you don;t get a confirmation withing four weeks - but their is no statutory basis whatsoever for this claim. They have simply made it up.

"Everyone is guilty of something ... We are merely here to determine the level of your guilt" - Originally Judge Dredd, now the Labour Party Law and Order mission statement.​

 

[mjcp]

I've said I pay over £100 already for the lights and marks I use and going by your reasoning, even though you don't use my harbour trust's marks, I think you should contribute towards them.

I have never been to Scotland, Ever. Nor have I been to Northern Ireland, EVER.

I do however pay in to a national mechanism for car drivers that nominally pays for roads and infrastructure in these areas. I do pay for local infrastructure in my local area as do you in yours... We both pay twice, despite the fact we may never use the roads and other infrastructure in each others areas.

Why do you think you should have free use of the safety net of NavAids that you have the opportunity to use, but Choose not to. Have you EVER been outside the straights in a leisure craft? Can you state categorically that you NEVER will be...?

I suspect you are also of the view that news on the internet should be free too (and no, ads don't fund well enough, how often do you click on the ads at the side of a story you're reading?) And if you don't read online, when you buy your newspaper, do you ask for a discount on the basis you never read the Women's section or the sport or the XYZ section that doesn't apply to you?

Nothing is Free.

mjcp

 

[timbartlett]

The English Bill of Rights of 1689 forbids the application of fines without the recourse to court. The system now in place applies extra penalties if you decide to challenge a fix penalty, which is against the Bill of Rights.

I understand that this is why they are not called "fines" but are officially referred to as "penalty charges": that small semantic change gives them a spurious legality.

Hmmmm Tell me how that works then?

Interesting that within three quarters of an hour of posting this question, you received two completely independent explanations of how it is done, both from people with first-hand experience of it, and both referring to the same government department.

 

[timbartlett]

I do however pay in to a national mechanism for car drivers that nominally pays for roads and infrastructure in these areas.

What's that, then?
The old road fund licence was abandoned long ago. What you now pay is called Vehicle Excise Duty, and it has no more to do with paying for roads or infrastructure than National Insurance has to do with ensuring that we all get free dental care, spectacles, and prescriptions.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I was just about to write the same thing.

These taxes are now all just general taxes that pay for everything, after all they want to raise the NI to help pay for the recovery, not the NHS or pensions.

Light dues for national lights should be paid for out of general taxation, with the commercial operators paying directly for their 'commercial' use.

I am hoping someone will support me in saying that to set up an entire department to collect a maximum of £10m, but probably more like £6m, is utterly mad and a blatant waste of money as the admin process will probably cost more.

 

[Kawasaki]

Good point. We have Kawasaki.

Oi, leave me alone whilst I,m on a mission clearing unmarked sticky up bits in the Dodecanese.

Can't read the Report on this pute, cos a pop up blocky thing won't let me!

Pop ups an sticky up bits
Glad the Sun is shining

Anyway
As Searush said and MC knows
Us lot in the Straits are already paying 'The Dues'.
Nowt will change, cept the cost will go up prob.
Can't see any amount of bleating on here will make a difference
Or anything the RYA will do either!

 

[mjcp]

What's that, then?
The old road fund license was abandoned long ago. What you now pay is called Vehicle Excise Duty, and it has no more to do with paying for roads or infrastructure than National Insurance has to do with ensuring that we all get free dental care, spectacles, and prescriptions.

The clue was in the word "nominally" ie in name only, though it is clearly only raised on cars.

mjcp