T
timbartlett
Guest
But we do.
Just look at the posts on this forum and in the Lounge that defend e-boarders, UKBA, police dog-killers, scameras, etc.etc.
Report pushes for light dues and registration for leisure boaters
- Thread starter islandsailor
- Start date
Just look at the posts on this forum and in the Lounge that defend e-boarders, UKBA, police dog-killers, scameras, etc.etc.
mjcp
Active member
Hmmm...
I seem to be at odds with the hive mind on this one... I think £8.33 a month is cheap for the one time that I need to know if I am pointing at St Cats or the Needles on a return trip from the Channel with my "makes lights and traditional nav aids redundant" electronics in a failed state at night.....
Clearly collection and enforcement will be a PITA and it will be far easier to enforce on the "average Joe" than the occasional ramp launched trailer sailer etc but that on its own doesn't mean it shouldn't be done...
Personally, I dislike income tax and VAT... but I accept that there is a need for it and I understand that know some will find ways round it etc Also, I know that if I choose to live in a house, not a caravan and that I register to vote, the chances are I would get caught if i didn't pay these taxes. - Doesn't mean they shouldn't be levied though because a few Pikies and Lords evade them.
mjcp
I seem to be at odds with the hive mind on this one... I think £8.33 a month is cheap for the one time that I need to know if I am pointing at St Cats or the Needles on a return trip from the Channel with my "makes lights and traditional nav aids redundant" electronics in a failed state at night.....
Clearly collection and enforcement will be a PITA and it will be far easier to enforce on the "average Joe" than the occasional ramp launched trailer sailer etc but that on its own doesn't mean it shouldn't be done...
Personally, I dislike income tax and VAT... but I accept that there is a need for it and I understand that know some will find ways round it etc Also, I know that if I choose to live in a house, not a caravan and that I register to vote, the chances are I would get caught if i didn't pay these taxes. - Doesn't mean they shouldn't be levied though because a few Pikies and Lords evade them.
mjcp
Robin
Well-known member
Just to clarify some misconceptions, Light Dues refers to buoyage as well as lighthouses. However local buoyage and channel marking is done by local harbour authorities and is already funded by them charging harbour dues. The offshore buoys are placed with big ships in mind and have very much less significance to small boats, some like the mid-Channel buoys are even a hazard to small boats crossing in poor visibility. Some lighthouses are also apparently to be phased out in favour of AIS virtual ones.
Then what about British Registered boats kept abroad? Why should they be asked to pay for something they can never use?
Better to spend your £100 on a once off purchase of a spare battery powered GPS instead of an annual tax?
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I was one of many bikers who wrote an irate letter to the DVLAwhen the obviously silly 40% figure was being bandied about in parliament, but I reckon the 1% is wrong in the other direction. Thats the view of the police too.
Question is - how? Maybe plate cloning is more common than thought. Maybe the untaxed driver avoids ANPR cameras which are overwhelmingly on trunk roads/ motorways. Maybe the DVLA are playing with legalistic hair splitting definitions. But even allowing for off road bikes being in fashion amongst the sink estate kids, I cant see bike evasion being near 10 times car evasion.
When common sense conflicts with the DVLA, I'll take common sense every time.
A
Alcyone
Guest
I'd actually favour some form of regulation. A very basic universal driving license, paper based, including rudimentary knowledge of charts and weather, safety etc, and even a basic boat MOT, which could be self certified, to say you have anchor, radio, you carry out regular maintenance and checks. I'd welcome these. Occasional spot checks would be fine.
But if we pay more to the upkeep of lights, the shipping companies pay less, so our imports get cheaper, will that happen...........
But if we pay more to the upkeep of lights, the shipping companies pay less, so our imports get cheaper, will that happen...........
maxi
Member
The fee suggested is, to my mind, totally out of scale, but, it is the National Boat Registration Scheme that is the frightening thing.
Successive governments have long been trying to establish a register of leisure vessels, with the intent to impose additional taxes. It was done in Amarica not so long ago and their marine industry took a huge knock, and I believe that it has not yet recovered fully despite the tax being abandoned.
No doubt once again, yacht clubs will be pressured to provide annual returns relating to their boat owning members, so make sure that your committees have the sense to decline.
Successive governments have long been trying to establish a register of leisure vessels, with the intent to impose additional taxes. It was done in Amarica not so long ago and their marine industry took a huge knock, and I believe that it has not yet recovered fully despite the tax being abandoned.
No doubt once again, yacht clubs will be pressured to provide annual returns relating to their boat owning members, so make sure that your committees have the sense to decline.
nonitoo
New member
The powers that be have upped the ante on that one. The charge for that, if you are caught, is Perverting the Course of Justice. Max for that is life imprisonment so a much wider range of sanctions available.
Tom
Barnacle Bill
Active member
"a compulsory registration scheme to make the collection of this tax easier".
This makes my blood run cold - this is exactly how the bureaucrats justify the start of regulation, and there will always be arguments for more regulation not less.
Resist, resist, resist - or before long you will have the MCA mandating how many flares you have to carry, the size of medical kit, crew qualifications, and how far you can go from a safe haven. If you don't believe me, look at the small commercial vessel (SCV) coding rules.
Turn the lights out, and let's navigate the way we do in parts of the world where there aren't any!
This makes my blood run cold - this is exactly how the bureaucrats justify the start of regulation, and there will always be arguments for more regulation not less.
Resist, resist, resist - or before long you will have the MCA mandating how many flares you have to carry, the size of medical kit, crew qualifications, and how far you can go from a safe haven. If you don't believe me, look at the small commercial vessel (SCV) coding rules.
Turn the lights out, and let's navigate the way we do in parts of the world where there aren't any!
T
timbartlett
Guest
Searush was talking about cars, not motorbikes, and I am (reluctantly) prepared to agree that there are probably more untaxed bikes than cars.
But the police have the same vested interest in inflating the figures as the DVLA, so unless they have any evidence to support their figures, their "opinion" is just as worthless as that of the DVLA.
The fact that senior officials at the DVLA chose to mislead parliament by presenting figures that they knew were very seriously wrong means that nothing they say can ever be trusted again. If the management of a private company had done the same thing to shareholders, they would be looking for new jobs. Unfortunately, the bollocking the DVLA got from the PAC is like water off a duck's back.
Fire99
Well-known member
Well so long as it's not the RYA backing us up. The more I hear from them the more the word 'Spineless' enters my head!!
Major Catastrophe
New member
The Chancellor must be salivating at the thought of getting you for a future beard and window tax.
As Searush points out, in N Wales I already pay over £100 a year for a few marks and lights in the Menai Strait and as with all fees, the temptation is to increase them year on year once they have been applied, mainly because the organisations levying them suddenly find the need to take on more staff and find other things they need to spend money on - oh yes, and the 'increased cost of collecting and policing the charge'.
My boat draws 18 inches and I don't tend to use the marks in the small area I boat in, but you are quite happy to advocate me paying another £100 for marks and lights I definitely will not be using, as I don't travel far enough to see them.
bobgoode
Active member
Surely the point is we are NOT a user group.
I enter Chichester and use lights and buoys that I pay for via my harbour dues to CHC.
I enter Cowes and pay harbour dues which fund their lights.
(I enter Brixham and am spoilt for choice by the lights and buoys but again these are paid for by the harbour dues.)
Now the difficulty comes with places like Portsmouth but I don't see any lights or buoys on the swashway which I make a lot of use of.
Kukri
Well-known member
By way of background, Britain charges Light Dues on commercial ships entering our ports. The owners of these ships, in a body led by the AP Moller group, fwiw, are objecting very powerfully to having to pay for lights and buoys used by everyone.
The proposal seems entirely reasonable, to me.
The proposal seems entirely reasonable, to me.
Major Catastrophe
New member
But I, like thousands of boaters, do not use 'commercial' lights and marks, so it is NOT 'reasonable'. I have use of the lights and marks in my own area, if I want to use them, and pay over £100 for the privilege. Why am I expected to pay double for something I will never use?
Skylark
Well-known member
Bring it on. Let's not worry about semantics', call it by the collective noun: tax.
There should be a few more introduced at the same time. How about draft? Seems fertile ground. I suggest we repeal the Windows Tax of 1460 and replace it with a new Porthole Tax.
How else are we going to pay off the national debt while bankers and government wallow in self righteousness.
There should be a few more introduced at the same time. How about draft? Seems fertile ground. I suggest we repeal the Windows Tax of 1460 and replace it with a new Porthole Tax.
How else are we going to pay off the national debt while bankers and government wallow in self righteousness.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I was mostly with you until I got to this bit. I'm still wiping tea off the monitor.
D
DogWatch
Guest
I'd actually favour some form of regulation. A very basic universal driving license, paper based, including rudimentary knowledge of charts and weather, safety etc, and even a basic boat MOT, which could be self certified, to say you have anchor, radio, you carry out regular maintenance and checks. I'd welcome these. Occasional spot checks would be fine.
But if we pay more to the upkeep of lights, the shipping companies pay less, so our imports get cheaper, will that happen...........
I already have a mum so please stop worrying about the rest of us.
Are you quite new to sailing? It seems usual for people new to sailing to shout loudest for regulation and nanny knows best changes, if you are worried get some training.
Kukri
Well-known member
Those of us who have been sailing for as long as I have will recall that yachts used to pay Light Dues, annually on the Register Tonnage, and were obliged to keep the receipt on board, as Customs officials were entitled to ask to see it.
This is not a new proposal. Yachts were just excused for a few decades.
Anyone who goes to sea uses lights and buoys laid by Trinity House and/or the Commissioners of irish Lights and/or the Northern Lighthouse Board as the case may be. It seems perfectly reasonable to pay for them.
Look on the plus side - if we do pay for them we get a say in where they are sited, etc.
This is not a new proposal. Yachts were just excused for a few decades.
Anyone who goes to sea uses lights and buoys laid by Trinity House and/or the Commissioners of irish Lights and/or the Northern Lighthouse Board as the case may be. It seems perfectly reasonable to pay for them.
Look on the plus side - if we do pay for them we get a say in where they are sited, etc.
RivalRedwing
Well-known member
sadly he is either 6' under or gone up the chimney, not sure which but definetly one or the other
Kukri
Well-known member
Right.
