Med Boating - Gotchas?

[Seahope]

I still fancy the idea of returning to boating and as we are now living in the French Alps the SoF would be the obvious place to think about. It is only after all about a 5 hour drive due South.

I did look at chartering a boat there but the weekly cost was eye watering. It looks as though people are trying to meet their annual coats in one hire!

I can easily find out the 2nd hand price of boats but I seem to remember there are issues with finding berths in SoF? S

Someone else motioned taxes based on engine sizes etc. What else would I need to factor in?

In the UK the recommended budget was 10% of the original price of the boat for servicing, berthing etc, which I found a reasonably good measure. Is this still applicable in SoF?

The other thing to mention is I will actually not be so time poor next year as I am going to retire

 

[mcanderson]

Well I will start this off. I think berthing alone is higher. We pay €8k for an annual 12m berth all in. Prices increase exponentially as a 14m berth is €12k. Doing you own work will save money, but you will then have accommodation on top. Some yards won’t let you work on your own boat.

Many of the Côte d’Azur marinas are coming to the end of the lease periods so things are changing. Waiting lists can be longer for annual berths in popular locations.

Our boat is British registered so we don’t pay the French taxes.

 

[JB]

We have a boat registered in France and another registered in Jersey. In France you pay an annual ‘matriculation tax’ I think which is based on the CO2 emissions of the engines? In Jersey you pay no annual tax whatsoever.

I bought a 16m berth in Port Gallice on a 15 year contract paying once every 5 years. Extremely expensive! While it is a huge upfront payment, it is comforting to know we don’t have to worry about waiting lists etc.

I had the engines serviced in March and believe it or not the price was almost 10 times more than it was in the UK. But there are a few one-man-bands that operate around and are very reasonable and not trying to charge us through the nose for everything!

 

[westernman]

Our boat is British registered so we don’t pay the French taxes.

The boat tax does not depend on flag. Only on residency.
If the boat is flagged in France it is called "Le droit annuel de francisation et de navigation (DAFN)".
If the boat is not flagged in France it is called "un droit de passeport". The amounts and calculation method are the same.

The tax depends on hull the length. And another one for engine capacity which is progressive with the total engine capacity (i.e. like income tax - the bigger the engine the more you pay per litre capacity). Nothing to do with horse power or emissions.

If you have two engines over 12 liters each, it will be expensive ( ~100 CV). There is not deduction for age (there are rumours that that might be scrapped anyway), and the rate per CV (roughly one CV is about 0.24 litres) is the highest.

You can find a table here to do you calculation:-

Taxe francisation 2021 bateau de plaisance et jet-ski : montant, calcul

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Best of luck. The lease on my 23m berth in Antibes is coming to an end this year and I've been looking around for a berth to rent or lease myself. Antibes want a cool €980k for another 20yrs for the same berth and even if I had that kind of money lying around I wouldnt pay that ridiculous price although rumour has it that plenty of people have been willing to.

I think if you are looking for a reasonably priced berth you probably need to forget about anywhere between Monaco and La Napoule except possibly St Laurent du Var where the existing lease period runs out in 2025 and there are some berths for sale eg

16.5m berth for sale Port Saint Laurent Du Var | Triangle

Of course the reason that there may be berths available at St Laurent du Var is that the marina sits at the end of the Nice airport runways

Generally the further west or east you go from the Cote d'Azur, the more likely you are to find berths at tolerable prices. Going west you could try Frejus, Cogolin, Cavalaire, Bormes for example. Going east into Italy, you will almost definitely find berths in places like San Remo, Imperia, Aregai, Loano. Basically the further you go east towards Genoa, the more likely that you will find a berth

In the end, probably the best way to find a berth along that coast is to get in your car and start from one end of the coast calling in at every marina you fancy and asking in the Capitainerie

 

[westernman]

Marina rates in the SoF depend on where. The eastern end is more expensive than the western end of the med coast in France.
We paid just under 5K euros per year (including free water and electricty) for 15.2m (actually 20.0m LOA).

However, finding a berth can be very difficult with potentially long waiting times. Particularly at the eastern end. If you buy a boat through a broker, you can usually get an annual berth thrown in.

I find Spain is significantly more expensive than France.

 

[westernman]

In the end, probably the best way to find a berth along that coast is to get in your car and start from one end of the coast calling in at every marina you fancy and asking in the Capitainerie

The only way which works.

Otherwise, just turn up for a week and then try to extend. At first go for 6 months.
Many places have more berths available during July and August. Everyone is out sailing somewhere.

You can't really do much without being there in person. Being there with the boat helps even more.

Buying a berth makes absolutely no financial sense. But it is one way of getting a berth when the rental ones are all full.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Buying a berth makes absolutely no financial sense. But it is one way of getting a berth when the rental ones are all full.

Yes and no. Certainly new and relatively new leases tend to sell for more than the equivalent annual berthing costs because of the security of tenure aspect but buying the fag end of a lease, say the last 3-5yrs can make sense because by then some lease owners are looking to get out with a cash sum rather than risk not renting their berths for the remainder of the lease. Thats certainly what was happening in Antibes back in 2016 when I bought the remaining 5 1/2yrs of a 23m berth in a prime location for the equivalent of less than €20k pa. Also dont forget that to some extent existing lease prices are negotiable in that you might be lucky to find somebody who's desperate to sell for whatever reason and may listen to an offer

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

As to what it costs to maintain a boat in SoF, its just about the most expensive place in the Med to keep a boat. French labour rates are kept high by law, taxes on businesses and individuals are high and work is plentiful so that translates into some bloody expensive bills unless you are handy enough and energetic enough to do the work yourself

 

[Seahope]

Hmm thanks for all the above. Whilst I am a lot more affluent than I was last time I had a boat it sounds as though keeping one in the SoF is only for the seriously rich. I suppose I am not surprised.

I will look into renting and staying local. Lac Leman isn't tiny.

 

[Bouba]

Hmm thanks for all the above. Whilst I am a lot more affluent than I was last time I had a boat it sounds as though keeping one in the SoF is only for the seriously rich. I suppose I am not surprised.

I will look into renting and staying local. Lac Leman isn't tiny.

Why not just trailer a boat down with you when you go on vacation

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Why not just trailer a boat down with you when you go on vacation

Actually thats a great idea. Or try to find a dry stack facility if your boat is not too big

I know my comments and others have probably put you off but it would be a huge shame to be living 5 hrs away from one of the prime Med boating hotspots and not make use of it. A sub 30ft trailerable boat with some accommodation would be perfectly suitable for a week's cruising on the Cote d'Azur. There are plenty of places you could spend the night on the hook in settled weather

I've just thought of another option and that is Port Napoleon just west of Marseille

Port Napoléon - Port Adhoc

It will be a longer drive for you, and it is not the most attractive location but both dry and wet berths will be significantly cheaper than on the Cote d'Azur. It is 3-4hrs cruise from the Cote d'Azur and it is generally more windy than the Cote d'Azur but as a place to park and maintain a boat at a more modest cost, it might be worth checking out

 

[Clancy Moped]

Actually thats a great idea. Or try to find a dry stack facility if your boat is not too big

I know my comments and others have probably put you off but it would be a huge shame to be living 5 hrs away from one of the prime Med boating hotspots and not make use of it. A sub 30ft trailerable boat with some accommodation would be perfectly suitable for a week's cruising on the Cote d'Azur. There are plenty of places you could spend the night on the hook in settled weather

I've just thought of another option and that is Port Napoleon just west of Marseille

Port Napoléon - Port Adhoc

It will be a longer drive for you, and it is not the most attractive location but both dry and wet berths will be significantly cheaper than on the Cote d'Azur. It is 3-4hrs cruise from the Cote d'Azur and it is generally more windy than the Cote d'Azur but as a place to park and maintain a boat at a more modest cost, it might be worth checking out

Port Napoleon is grim as.

 

[Seahope]

Why not just trailer a boat down with you when you go on vacation

We live up in the mountains on a thin private road with a ridiculously steep drive. We couldn't keep a boat locally so it would have to be dry stacked or something. Certainly worth looking into.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Port Napoleon is grim as.

Granted and its also infested with mosquitos as big as small birds but it is a safe, moderately priced location to keep a boat on that coast and which is within cruising distance of the hedonistic fleshpots of the Cote d'Azur

 

[Seahope]

Actually thats a great idea. Or try to find a dry stack facility if your boat is not too big

I know my comments and others have probably put you off but it would be a huge shame to be living 5 hrs away from one of the prime Med boating hotspots and not make use of it. A sub 30ft trailerable boat with some accommodation would be perfectly suitable for a week's cruising on the Cote d'Azur. There are plenty of places you could spend the night on the hook in settled weather

I've just thought of another option and that is Port Napoleon just west of Marseille

Port Napoléon - Port Adhoc

It will be a longer drive for you, and it is not the most attractive location but both dry and wet berths will be significantly cheaper than on the Cote d'Azur. It is 3-4hrs cruise from the Cote d'Azur and it is generally more windy than the Cote d'Azur but as a place to park and maintain a boat at a more modest cost, it might be worth checking out

Thanks. We managed to go to Narbonne & Perpignon last summer for a short break. I tried kite surfing at Narbonne. Sadly, I didn't improve :-(* I did notice a few small harbours and marinas around there that would probably be affordable.

 

[Portofino]

You have not said what your budget is ?
Lac leman does end up a bit of gold fish bowl , pop over to Evian and speak to the locals .Not sure how you will react paying Swiss prices for lunch etc in Montreux , Lutry and such like ?

Trailer boating to the Med does work to a degree but you end up to the left on the camping basics on one side and luxury on the rhd scale .Subjective where you wanna be .Impeding retirement = more free time = longer stints on the boat .
You crave for a shift to the right towards the lux end of the scale the more time you spend on the boat .
Talking from experience here .
So we started off ( Fam of 4 flying in around school) on a Portofino 35 .

Perfectly adequate , son kipped in the saloon daughter in the aft cabin when they became teenagers .As kids they both shared the “ kiddie cabin “ Based in La Nap 1/2 hr away from NICE .We went all over , Corsica , Elba , Italy , as well as right over to Marseille etc .9 seasons in all .

Kids grow up and are cast away to uni , early retirement loomed for me .= more boaty time .Perfect .

erh Nope .Even now with just the two of us we wanted a bit more luxury and less tiny hassles .
If you spend more time what was insignificant in a one weeker whereby by Wednesday you are taking calls from work and Thursday distracted by yesterdays conversation.....when work ends all that’s gone and stuff like inflating a tender , fitting in fills to sun pads etc becomes a biggie .
Sea keeping rears it ugly head now because you want to and can venture out further in any sea state ....kinda spread your wings .
In a one weeker you tend to stay local and accept being weathered off ( staying on port ) on Friday as it’s necessary for the Saturday flight out etc .
What we found is a move up to a 14 M boat , from 3.55 beam to 4,2 M beam , from outdrives to shafts .
From one head s to two , to a larger bathing platform with a permanent tender , from 175 L of fresh water ( 4 pax ) to 500 for a couple .From 750;L to 2200 L of fuel .From one fridge to two etc actually means it’s more tolerable for longer stays on the boat .

Something happens above 4 M beam space wise .
Not wanting to ignite a shaft vs outdrives fanfare , something happens expense wise favourably moving from one to the other .

So trailer boating you will be camping , the novelty will wear off .No geny , chemical toilets , no proper cool storage , no air con etc
12 M will annoy you on longer stays . Dinghy storage , geny + or - ? Air con noisy self contained units , cramped cockpits etc .All doable if accept where you are on the camp to lux scale .....towards the L .
14 M upwards you won’t want to rtn home .


Typical overnight in the SoF note the sizes .


fixed sun pad area .A lot of time is spent here .


On a laid buoy .......remember what I said about tank capacity.......how many days could you last here ?







View from the island , Port Cros .Restaurant s shop etc as well as beaches + dive areas .

On that trip we were away from our berth for 10 days .All spontaneous, no pre plan .

Retirements has its advantages.

 

[Chris H]

My tub is on a 19m berth in Cap Ferrat that is coming to the end of the lease this year, it’s looking like £25k for the berth and £12k service charge for 2022...........I will be looking for an alternative !

 

[TonyR123]

Buying a berth makes absolutely no financial sense. But it is one way of getting a berth when the rental ones are all full.

For me it has been good financial sense. My first mooring in Mallorca I bought for €100k with 20 years left on the lease. One year later I sold it for €120k. Bought a 15m mooring for €350k, 5 years later and they are still being sold for €350k-€380k.

 

[JB]

There is a good dry stack at Port Inland near La Napoule. Close to the motorway and easy to get to