Hailing "We Are Racing", in the Solent

[RobbieW]

 

[Kukri]

There was a time when the absence of an ensign would indicate that a yacht was racing therefore in theory making shouts of "We are racing" unnecessary.

And the presence of a racing flag.

 

[flaming]

I think that the attitude of "I am in the right, bugger you" propounded by some is bloody minded, arrogant and mean spirited. Why ruin someone's race because you can? If it's possible to safely keep clear of a racer or race fleet, one should reasonably do so. "I am racing" might sounds arrogant but what someone is doing is letting you know why he/she might want to stand on. There are of course unpleasant people that race.

Fine if you come across 1 boat, but if you come across a large racing fleet shortly after a start, then it can sometimes be fairly hard to avoid them. And specifically hard to avoid one that should keep clear to you without then impacting another one.

I've been in that situation - sailing in from our racing when the J70s are still going and needing to cross their course area. They're milling about pre start... Are you going to get across their start line before they start, or not.... They start and suddenly you've got a dozen or more J70s coming at you. Even with the best intentions, a good understanding of where they might want to go, and a full crew available to throw the boat about, it can be difficult to avoid them in a way that doesn't impact any of them.
For a non racer, that same situation is not predictable, occurs very suddenly, and if you're short handed can be very stressful and challenging to deal with. And the chap who's wind you take whilst "being nice" to another boat isn't going to be too impressed.
Simpler by far in that situation to apply the rules rigidly. Then everyone knows where they stand.

That said, for every "I'm racing" that I hear about here, I could counter with an example of a cruiser that should have kept clear, but didn't. Or wasn't keeping a good enough lookout etc....

 

[Capt Popeye]

We certainly wouldn't call that at our club, we'd be shouting that every 5 seconds, as every other boat is a motorboat being driven by inexperienced tourists.
By the time you got a reaction you'd be rammed..
We just assume every motorboat driver is an idiot, and non competing sailor slightly less so.. So therefore take appropriate precautions.

Well might suggest that if you stated your Boating area we all just might give way to you , or just avoid you or your area altogether ? but whilst not flying any flag of identification guess you are really happy where you are ?

 

[Capt Popeye]

Fine if you come across 1 boat, but if you come across a large racing fleet shortly after a start, then it can sometimes be fairly hard to avoid them. And specifically hard to avoid one that should keep clear to you without then impacting another one.

I've been in that situation - sailing in from our racing when the J70s are still going and needing to cross their course area. They're milling about pre start... Are you going to get across their start line before they start, or not.... They start and suddenly you've got a dozen or more J70s coming at you. Even with the best intentions, a good understanding of where they might want to go, and a full crew available to throw the boat about, it can be difficult to avoid them in a way that doesn't impact any of them.
For a non racer, that same situation is not predictable, occurs very suddenly, and if you're short handed can be very stressful and challenging to deal with. And the chap who's wind you take whilst "being nice" to another boat isn't going to be too impressed.
Simpler by far in that situation to apply the rules rigidly. Then everyone knows where they stand.

That said, for every "I'm racing" that I hear about here, I could counter with an example of a cruiser that should have kept clear, but didn't. Or wasn't keeping a good enough lookout etc....

My guess (HOPE) is that the Race Committee / Flag Officers are delaying their start untill the Faiway is actually clear of transiting Craft ; after all that could be considered as Good Seamanship , by many a Cruiser or Motor Boat skipper ; bear in mind that SAFETY is the real key here ; might make an interesting Court Case if a collision /loss of life occured , when the Racing Start was actually Started when others were already in the Fairway , so those giving the Start were considered responsible

 

[Capt Popeye]

Lucky not to be arrested, I'm sure we all remember this one,

He got done by the Authorities.. (and probably his insurance company)

If I recall rightly , it was (of course) the LOCAL harbour regulations that should have been obeyed not necessarlity COLREGS , as it all happened well inside Local Harbour Authority duristictions

 

[flaming]

My guess (HOPE) is that the Race Committee / Flag Officers are delaying their start untill the Faiway is actually clear of transiting Craft ; after all that could be considered as Good Seamanship , by many a Cruiser or Motor Boat skipper ; bear in mind that SAFETY is the real key here ; might make an interesting Court Case if a collision /loss of life occured , when the Racing Start was actually Started when others were already in the Fairway , so those giving the Start were considered responsible

This isn't a fairway, it's the open Solent on the Hill Head Plateau.

 

[scottie]

I think that the attitude of "I am in the right, bugger you" propounded by some is bloody minded, arrogant and mean spirited. Why ruin someone's race because you can? If it's possible to safely keep clear of a racer or race fleet, one should reasonably do so. "I am racing" might sounds arrogant but what someone is doing is letting you know why he/she might want to stand on. There are of course unpleasant people that race.

Being aware of what is going on about you would normally avoid a racing fleet but there are times when it is not appropriate or possible and boats racing should also accept others rights

 

[dancrane]

If it's possible to safely keep clear of a racer or race fleet, one should reasonably do so.

I don't think there's any 'should' about it. Racers could go somewhere empty of obstructions, or could embrace the presence of non-racers as an interesting additional challenge they face as a result of not going somewhere empty.

In busy waters, some obstructions to racing positively cannot alter course; some that could, do not. If those who need not, nevertheless take pains to get out of the way, they encourage expectation of that favour.

Flaming makes a good point, that by obligingly getting out of one racer's way, the non-racer may directly (or indirectly) put another competitor (who hadn't needed his path cleared) at a thoroughly undeserved disadvantage.

It's their choice to race in shared waters; notwithstanding Colregs, I don't see a reason (even in the interests of the fairness of their racing) to steer other than had they been absent.

 

[DFL1010]

Sorry, but I can't fully agree. Surely the operating word in your paragraphs there is 'sharing' - besides, it's nice to be nice.

If you go to the park, and there's some people having a kick about with a football, then yes you could sit down in the middle and have your sandwich, but what's the point, other than to prove you can?

 

[dancrane]

That seems a slightly leaky comparison. If racers expect (or by making the O.P.'s remark, tacitly request) that non-racers will get out of the way of an area they are obliged to share, it's more like the footballers choosing a picnic spot during the picnic, though it be free for everyone. Sharing, as you say, is the essence - but the player who requests that you move your ice-bucket so he needn't dribble round you, shows his shortcomings as a player.

Besides, if as picnickers we could be certain the footballers wouldn't (because they positively mustn't) make physical contact with non-players, then let them play, around us.

I may have tortured that metaphor to death.

I don't understand why it isn't acknowledged that racing in a potentially crowded area, involves unknown and unpredictable non-racing obstructions, which add realism to the racers' challenge.

Agreed, it's nice to be nice, and it can be nice to watch racing at close quarters. So let them play - and let them keep clear, enjoying the real-world activity in the location they've chosen. If they need us to keep clear, they need more practice, and if they want a totally clear field, let them go offshore.

 

[j80]

It's their choice to race in shared waters; notwithstanding Colregs, I don't see a reason (even in the interests of the fairness of their racing) to steer other than had they been absent.

Good luck with that approach if you are cruising off Cowes from next Saturday onwards - I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities for you to have some healthy dialogue with others to express your views

 

[pyrojames]

Anyone else seen John Green’s Facebook page in the last hour? RYS /BCYC race abandoned due to car carrier…

Yes, I saw that. I think they were effectively becalmed and could only get out of the way by motoring off.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Good luck with that approach if you are cruising off Cowes from next Saturday onwards - I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities for you to have some healthy dialogue with others to express your views

Even so, plenty of cruisers do transit the race area during Cowes week. Some of them are barely noticeable, others more of a pain in the @453. Last year someone sailed through our start line with about 1’30” remaining, under spinnaker, on starboard. In probably the most aggressively competitive fleet, that caused some fun and games.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If it's a Cal Mac ferry there should be a Tug because it will be broken.. therefore it's got right of way...

Point of pedantry.
1. A tug and tow has no more rights than a power driven vessel UNLESS it’s got RAM shapes up. (Lots of people don’t seem to know this.)
2. The old saw of ‘there’s no such things as right way’ in IRPCS.

 

[Robin]

Even so, plenty of cruisers do transit the race area during Cowes week. Some of them are barely noticeable, others more of a pain in the @453. Last year someone sailed through our start line with about 1’30” remaining, under spinnaker, on starboard. In probably the most aggressively competitive fleet, that caused some fun and games.

Inconsiderate pita for sure but strictly 'about to be' but not yet actually racing and an outsider would be unaware of your impending start time or your being within the 5/10minute guns? A skilled tactician can even sometimes use such moving obstructions to good advantage. as in breaking cover

 

[DFL1010]

Inconsiderate pita for sure but strictly 'about to be' but not yet actually racing and an outsider would be unaware of your impending start time or your being within the 5/10minute guns? A skilled tactician can even sometimes use such moving obstructions to good advantage. as in breaking cover

If we're being strictly technical about things, a boat is racing from her prep signal, so in that sense the fleet was racing.

 

[Robin]

If we're being strictly technical about things, a boat is racing from her prep signal, so in that sense the fleet was racing.

Understood but the interloper would not be in that same information loop, or even on the same planet or hymn sheet.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Understood but the interloper would not be in that same information loop, or even on the same planet or hymn sheet.

Any interloper in the Cowes week starts you’d think would be both blind and stupid, yet it happens. I do wonder if it’s deliberate bloody mindedness sometimes. In our case, they’re taking a gamble that the skippers are going to go to great lengths to avoid spoiling their week, or their classic wooden race boat.

 

[The Q]

I Put notices about the 3 Rivers Race and our Horning Regatta (30th July -5th August this year) , in just about all the broads forums, and all the facebook Broads pages. The boat yards are notified of the events (some boat yards owners / workers compete anyway) . Yet the tourists seem very surprised when they come across us.
Similarly our moorings have Private no mooring on them.. yep they just moor there anyway.. as one did yesterday .

Here's a link to one of my warnings..
//the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=22&Topic=45017