Extending my cruising in my skipper 17

[George Hunter]

Hi all

I have been sailing my little skipper 17 around the east coast for a while. Mainly on the Blackwater but have gone Up as far as Suffolk yacht harbour.
I’m in the process of modifying the boat with the intention of sailing Her slightly further a afield. Even considering a UK circumnavigation.
Modifications have/will include
- Additional water tight compartments
-Stregthend standing rigging mounting points , as well as additional rigging wires.
- Upgraded electrics including an auto helm of some description .
I am mainly writing to see what views people have about carrying out a venture of this discription on a small 17 ft boat.
As well as this it would be great if anyone had any advice with regards to additional mods that might be needed.
Many thanks for taking the time to read
George

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Above all good. With the autohelm top of my list.

Perhaps a boom tent would be a nice addition.

When you feel ready, a trip across the Thanes Estuary would be a nice challenge for you to work towards.

Lots of excellent contributors on this forum to help you. There's no rush, enjoy the ride.

 

[George Hunter]

Above all good. With the autohelm top of my list.

Perhaps a boom tent would be a nice addition.

When you feel ready, a trip across the Thanes Estuary would be a nice challenge for you to work towards.

Lots of excellent contributors on this forum to help you. There's no rush, enjoy the ride.

Many thanks for your response.
And will definitely take your advice onboard

 

[Corribee Boy]

that sounds a good project. Autohelm and chart plotter will make a huge difference to your cruising range, but you don't say where you'll get the power to run them, and that's something I find limiting on my boat even with an inboard to charge a 12v car-sized battery.

I do use a small solar panel to keep the battery topped up on its swinging mooring which helps.

Keep us updated on your progress!

 

[Gwylan]

I tried a circumnavigation in a 24 foot boat. All I can say is that it is one of a very few projects I have undertaken where common sense prevailed and I turned around and sailed back home.

That size of boat is slow and progress in tide windows is even slower.
The speed of the boat is in direct proportion to the waterline length. 24 was slow, 17 could be agonising

Also you are going to be "near the action" all the time. You will need your waterproofs almost all the time - and even more so when it rains. Prolonged sailing in indifferent weather is tedious in a small, slow boat - unless you are a masochist.

The degree of difficulty of the majority of activities on a sailing boat increases dramatically as the waterline length decreases. This ranges from making a hot drink to having a pee. Take a couple of Thermos - unbreakable ones are worth the extra. But they lie about the unbreakable bit.

I got to the West Coast of Scotland and then spent the summer playing around there. Then the owner of the other half, who was sponsoring me by going to work, said I had to bring her half home.

Get a good, really good autopilot, a waterproof, bomb proof tablet, a good, simple handheld VHF that will take AA batteries.
Rig good lifelines to very strong, reinforced, fixed points - dangling in the water off Tenby taught me that.
A good headtorch that you can recharge. Be careful with the 18650 batteries.
Have a good solar panel and battery.

Have a reefing genoa and mainsail - in mast would be magic. Be able to avoid having to leave the cockpit - except to drop the hook.

Get one of those bed bottle things to pee in. Much safer than "off the back"

But it was great fun as long as I do not think too hard about the overnight across Cardigan Bay, or the sea breaking over Caernarvon Bar as we arrived.

 

[ex-Gladys]

To add some "practical" to Gwylan's comments, it's not necessarily the size of the boat, it's the cruising speed... Crossing the Thames Estuary is quite an exercise. Our mate Tillergirl and I have spoken many times about the practicalities, with a view to him producing good info that is easily digested by users. A while ago I managed to develop his system so that you could input any boat speed (rather than choosing 3/4/5/6/7 knots etc). It became absolutely obvious that a small boat speed resulted in ridiculous times.

If you consider a UK circumnavigation, if you go anticlockwise going north along the east coast the high tide/low tide is earlier the further north you get, so you only get (say) 5 hours of positive tide. In fact it happens both ways from over here, since the North Sea/English Channel tides "meet" around Dungeness. It can be bad enough in a boat like mine where the planning speed can be 6 knots, the trip from Dover to Eastbourne (about 60 miles) means you get a t least a couple of hours of adverse tide!

 

[johnalison]

I tried a circumnavigation in a 24 foot boat. All I can say is that it is one of a very few projects I have undertaken where common sense prevailed and I turned around and sailed back home.

That size of boat is slow and progress in tide windows is even slower.
The speed of the boat is in direct proportion to the waterline length. 24 was slow, 17 could be agonising

Also you are going to be "near the action" all the time. You will need your waterproofs almost all the time - and even more so when it rains. Prolonged sailing in indifferent weather is tedious in a small, slow boat - unless you are a masochist.

The degree of difficulty of the majority of activities on a sailing boat increases dramatically as the waterline length decreases. This ranges from making a hot drink to having a pee. Take a couple of Thermos - unbreakable ones are worth the extra. But they lie about the unbreakable bit.

I got to the West Coast of Scotland and then spent the summer playing around there. Then the owner of the other half, who was sponsoring me by going to work, said I had to bring her half home.

Get a good, really good autopilot, a waterproof, bomb proof tablet, a good, simple handheld VHF that will take AA batteries.
Rig good lifelines to very strong, reinforced, fixed points - dangling in the water off Tenby taught me that.
A good headtorch that you can recharge. Be careful with the 18650 batteries.
Have a good solar panel and battery.

Have a reefing genoa and mainsail - in mast would be magic. Be able to avoid having to leave the cockpit - except to drop the hook.

Get one of those bed bottle things to pee in. Much safer than "off the back"

But it was great fun as long as I do not think too hard about the overnight across Cardigan Bay, or the sea breaking over Caernarvon Bar as we arrived.

Just one inaccuracy there. The speed is not proportional to the waterline length but to its square root. Thus, a 40' boat will only go a little less than half as fast again as a 20' boat, say seven knots instead of five. 17' to 24' is less of a change, maybe 1/4 knots. More significant might be its ability to stand sea and weather sail area varies with the square of the length while weight and probably stability with the cube, the reason why model yachts blow over so easily. 17' is perfectly adequate, but the weather windows will be smaller, and the stresses on the occupant greater.

 

[ianc1200]

The KeepTurningLeft early video's, perhaps south coast to the Wash, were in a Mirror Offshore - 18.7" with inboard (unreliable) diesel. Seemed to go well until the engine refused to engage gear & he was approaching Scotland. He was doing it non continuously - perhaps easier to cope living in such a small boat if you can get away for a week or two. But speed over the ground didn't seem to be a problem.

 

[PeterWright]

Hi George,

I don't find your plans impossible - as Johnalison says, in a smaller boat you will go a bit slower and spend more time waiting for weather windows. A round Britain (or perhaps round England and Wales, by taking the Caledonian canal) is a perfectly practical proposition, if you give it enough time. Just look at what John & Margaret Dyer achieved in a Wayfarer.

If you choose your weather windows, not much beefing up of your boat is really necessary. Like others, I would put an effective autopilot at the top of the list, relieving you of the tyranny of the helm and freeing you to rest (important) and / or attend to virtually any other crisis that arises. A chat plotter will, for the most part, relieve you of the need for traditional navigation, which is prone to error when you get tired (did I say rest is important?)..

A reliable engine, for entering / leaving ports would rate fairly high in my book and I would put things like watertight bulkheads and reinforced rigging further down the list. hose improvements protect you against the high consequence low probability risks whereas you do more to enhance your safety by addressing high probability risks.

Specifically, on reinforcing the rig, beefing up chainplates makes some sense, but it's more usually what the chainplates are bolted or screwed onto that fails than the chainplates themselves, so make sure loads are properly transferred back into the structure of the hull. Take care with adding more standing rigging. A yachts rig is better considered as a total system rather than a set of individual wires and struts. If you add anything extra, you need to work out the consequences for every other component of the system. You also need to consider dynamic loads (mostly caused by the mast's inertia when the vessel is rolling) as well as sailing loads. Personally, provided yur rig is in good condition and the Skipper 17 has no particular history of rig failure, I would stick with the original design. By good condition, I include all stainless wire replaced within the past decade and all stainless brackets, keyhole plates etc inspected for cracking, particularly at welds. If that has not been done, that's whree I would focus for making sure the rig is sound.

Peter.

 

[George Hunter]

Thank you for everyone’s views comments.
Defiantly Given me some more things to consider.
I can understand that slower Speeds and and smaller boat require more careful passage planning.
Not looking to rush tho and can uderstand that some night sailing might be required.
Hoping that a trip across the Thames estuary and maybe the other way to Lowestoft would give me a better idea as to what it’s all about.
Think I will get the boat set up with every I need to make her as comfortable and strong as she can be over the winter, and may well be adding some of the items mentiond.
Then go from there!
George

 

[ltcom]

Dame Ellen did it in coribee?

 

[Poignard]

You might find some ideas, and certainly encouragement, from the books of the late Charles Stock.

Available from Amazon

 

[tillergirl]

And adding Poignard's valuable point - see also Creeksailor. He is the successor of Charles and the boat Shoal Waters. There are also the books of Shan Acton who sailed round the world in Shrimpy - an 18ft boat!

If you have some plans to cross the Estuary, PM me an email and I can provide some choices for passage planning.

 

[johnalison]

If you haven't done so already, don't overlook the difference in motion between sailing in the Thames Estualry and further afield. It can get pretty rough in our home waters, but, as we found out when we first went foreign, open waters are different, and can put greater stresses on boat and crew. Although wave lengths are longer and waves higher, it is noticeable that the water is seldom flat, as there is usually some swell. In addition, you will need to be comfortable with longer passages and night sailing. As already said, I think, a trip to the Medway or Ramsgate would be good practice.

 

[Tomahawk]

Or a simple beat up the Wallet wind against tide...


OK someone will now report me for imposing cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[Nimrod18]

I’m personally a fan of a tiller tamer (something to hold the tiller in a fixed position when you temporarily go ‘hands free’) and a tiller pilot (something to move the tiller to keep you on a given course). Commercially available, although plenty of home builds available on google.

 

[michael_w]

The KeepTurningLeft early video's, perhaps south coast to the Wash, were in a Mirror Offshore - 18.7" with inboard (unreliable) diesel. Seemed to go well until the engine refused to engage gear & he was approaching Scotland. He was doing it non continuously - perhaps easier to cope living in such a small boat if you can get away for a week or two. But speed over the ground didn't seem to be a problem.

Not for nothing was it christened 'The Slug'.

 

[sailorman]

Not for nothing was it christened 'The Slug'.

It made quite a lot of click £s for its owner though

 

[Wansworth]

Spent a summer cruising in a Macwester 15 footer,with a small cabin but it had a keel and would have too

 

[tony_lavelle]

Dame Ellen did it in coribee?

Yes, sort of. She had a Skipper 17 before the Corribee. I too have owned both. Frankly I wouldn't even consider going very far in a Skipper 17 (aka Mariner 17 or Eagle 525).