Easter Passage

[steveej]

Morning all,

I am after some thoughts for an easter passage around the Bristol channel (Thursday night to Sunday night - 3 days ish).

The boat is a 22ft long keel based in Cardiff and it comes with Legs which may be of some use. So I think for most places, I will either need to use the legs or dry out alongside a wall - I have never done either. Any tips?

I was initially thinking Cardiff to Lundy, Lundy to Watchet, Watchet to Cardiff assuming southerly winds.

Or Cardiff to Milford in one go, then back to Swansea, Swansea to Cardiff if its blowing from the North.

Am I being too ambitious? There will be three blokes onboard, all in our early thirties and we are used to suffering.

I reckon my maximum hull speed under sail is 6knots (at least that is what I got in a gale around Cardiff Bay with all my reefs in).

What would be your recommendation be for an early season 3 day Bristol Channel cruise? Or at least what would your initial ideas be depending on weather?

Thanks all.

 

[DHV90]

Cardiff-Milford is a long slog in one hit, and will leave little time to do anything other than sailing to a deadline if you have 3 days. Tenby is not to be missed and slightly closer, very good provisition for drying out in the harbour with a kitchen and showers and lounge/dining area in the HM office, as well as shore power if you have a long lead, or loads of anchoring spots outside and around Caldey as well and also free swinging moorings to the northern side of the mooring field. One of my favourite spots in the BC we make sure to go there every year.

 

[bitbaltic]

I'd be realistic about your speed through the water. You're probably not far wrong (assuming a 19ft LWL) in thinking that you can touch 6kn in flat water (the bay) and strong winds, but nobody wants to go great distances in the BC in a gale, or even half a gale, and the sea state in the channel itself under those circumstances will slow you down enormously as well as be extremely tiring. You don't say what boat you have but plan on 4kn, absolute max 5kn, for that LOA. The plus point is that you have a crew of three hardy blokes and that makes a huge difference.

Taking Milford first. Leaving Thursday, the tide is flooding until 8pm at Cardiff. Putting the numbers into a passage calculator (in this case the one in Meridian's SeaTrak software) says that if you leave at 6pm and bank on 4kn through the water, you will be sailing for 18hrs to reach Dale (ie the first posible stop inside the Haven) at 12:00 the next day. Even if you could achieve 5kn it would take you almost 15 hrs (arrive 9.20 Friday 25th).

Lundy: leaving again on Thursday evening, Lundy is going to be 11-13 hours' away at 4-5kn boat speed, arriving breakfast time Friday morning.

Whichever you go to, if you spend any time there you will need to miss the first east-going tide (2pm Friday) so be looking at making something like a 2am start on Saturday morning to head back east and spend some time in either of the destinations you want to visit (Swansea or Watchet).

Dale Roads to Swansea is going to take something like 10-12 hours, arriving lunchtime Saturday. This will be low water, so you won't be able to get into the Tawe lock, and will have to jill around until sometime in the afternoon/evening. I haven't checked the Tawe lock times- the later you can lock out the better; but if you have to lock out somewhere around the top of the tide then you are going to have to leave mid-morning and punch back to Cardiff, taking 9-10 hours and arriving late Sunday night.

Lundy to Watchet is similar, 10-14 hrs, so starting 2am Saturday and arriving Saturday afternoon. This is also low tide, and you won't be able to get into Watchet, so you will similarly have to wait around (anchor) until Saturday evening to get in. You'll have to leave Watchet around 9am taking 3-5 hrs to get back to Cardiff.

This is a quick look and there are probably ways to optimise it, but you can see that it involves a lot of sailing for not a lot of sightseeing/beer, and a lot of night sailing in particular. It also has no slack room for breakages, delays, hungover crew who need an hour in the marina bog before getting going, strong or light winds, etc. Personally I would think the circuit is overoptimistic.

You might consider going one way to Milford via Swansea, taking it easy and getting some beers on the way, leaving the boat in the haven, and bringing it back in one hit the following weekend. Alternatively have a look at a circuit going up-channel to Portishead on Thursday night- 3 hrs for everyone to get their sea-legs, tide with you, decent beer at the end- then down to Watchet on Friday. You mention having a go at drying out, none of your original suggestions are suitable for this, but you could go from Watchet to one of the drying harbours to its west- Minehead, Lynmouth, Watermouth, on Saturday. Or perhaps across to Swansea? Return to Cardiff on Sunday. This would get plenty of sailing and look more like a cruise than a delivery rush.

I'd sit down with almanac, charts and pilot and a realistic view of speed, and make a plan. Then look at the weather and make plans B and C for too much or not enough wind. Think it thorugh every which way and then go sail.

Cheers- hope this is in some way helpful.

 

[steveej]

I'm thinking maybe just stay on the boat on the Thursday night ready for an early start on the Friday. Friday HW Cardiff is 8am, so leaving at 6 am and keeping in tight should get us to Ilfracombe on the Ebb, and then a possible push to Lundy but maybe that is a bit optimistic.

Anyone had experience of using Legs in the outer harbor at Ilfracombe?

Milford sounds too far for a 3 day trip but Tenby may work.

Maybe I should take the Thursday off and move the boat to Swansea or Porthcawl to give me a head start.

 

[single]

Gloucester?

 

[SteveSarabande]

Gloucester?

You won't need legs in Gloucester, just loads of cash for the canal.

You won't need them in watchett, Lundy, Cardiff or Milford either.

You need to work the tides, For Lundy anchor in Coombe Martin or Woody bay. Wait 6 hrs then go again. You will be lucky to make Ilfracombe on one tide.

For Milford, split the journey in Oxwich Bay, Gower. Go again on the next tide. google Castlemartin, it could really spoil your day if they are firing.

 

[SteveSarabande]

I don't see you averaging 6kts on passage in a 22ft. I just did Cardiff to Solent in a 27 and only averaged 5kts, even though my boat easily manages over 6kt with some decent wind

Swansea, Ilfracombe, Minehead, Cardiff sounds more realistic. You can test your legs or go on the wall at Ilfracombe and Minehead

 

[bitbaltic]

I also don't think you'll make Ilfracombe in one tide, I reckon 7-8 hrs and I think you might be better off punching the first of the afternoon flood near the destination rather than a couple of hours of the morning flood where it runs faster up-channel near the Holms. That way you can enter Ilfracombe on the flood so if you need to be further in for more shelter the option is available when you arrive. Only a suggestion as never been to Ilfracombe myself (our boat doesn't dry out).

 

[SteveSarabande]

The problem with drying out is that you can't leave until near high tide, even Watchet suffers this problem. If you are heading East then you have tidal problems getting anywhere.

 

[tatali0n]

Following link leads to a write up of one of our own bank holiday cruises out of Portishead last year with our 26' Westerly. It may or may not be of interest. I envy the fact that you get to start from Cardiff. Puts you a day closer to blue water

www.scapegoatsanon.blogspot.co.uk/.../a-spring-bank-holiday-cruise.html

I really wouldn't bank on an average of 6kts over the ground with a 22' unless it's some kind of lightweight sports boat you plan to keep at planing speed for most of the trip

I'm guessing you'd enjoy the outer harbour in Ilfracombe with legs. It's a good, level and sound sandy bottom. Not that I know much about balancing yachts on legs mind.

Personally, starting from Cardiff, and not paying the slightest bit of attention to the tides because I'm going the other way this Easter, I'd consider Cardiff > Ilfracombe > Lundy > Swansea > Cardiff.

Though I have a soft spot for the pub in Porlock Weir, so might consider that instead of Ilfracombe. Or perhaps Cardiff > Porlock > Ilfracombe > Swansea > Cardiff?

Enjoy. We're off up to Gloucester for Easter. Despite my persuading him we wanted a sailboat, Dad's still got a soft spot for the canal, and it isn't so pricey if you do it in company

 

[peterhull]

There is no harm in being ambitious but and it is big but, be prepared to alter your plans.
Be aware of ' wind over tide' WOT.
WOT can cause vicious waves and rough conditions because of the strong tides in channel. You may set off without Wot but this will change in 6 hours if the wind stays in same direction.

You can cover long distances if you have the tide with you but when the tide is foul this will be reversed.
Sometimes it is just better to anchor in sheltered spot and wait for a more favourable tide.

On one ocassion we set off from Watchet with favourable conditions and tide got as far Woody Bay turned back and got back to Watchet by 7pm on favourable tide. Avery pleasant day.
You will not get far against the tide in the Bristol Channel.

On another ocassion we tried to get to Ifracombe from Watcher with favourable tide but NW wind. Hopeless. Gave up at Minehead but had to spend most of the day in rough conditions until we could get back into Watchet, it was a bit unpleasant.

Crew experience is also important. It is easy to put crew off by giving them bad experiences.
Best advice is err on the side of caution.

Best of luck

 

[steveej]

well Friday was beautiful with an 8am lock out of Cardiff and a 4 hour beat to Porlock Wier.

Anchored off and motored the dinghy ashore. Had some lunch and a few hours in the 'bottom ship' before getting back on board and heading back to Watchet to take shelter in advance of Storm Katie.

9 knots over the ground approaching minehead bluff, meant we were too fast and ended up anchoring in Blue Anchor for an hour before the gate opened at Watchet.

Saturday was storm day so we took the bus to Minehead.

Luckily we managed to get back to Cardiff on Sunday in less than 4 hours, though we did motor some of it. Big swell but otherwise the sea state was perhaps 'slight'. Some breaking waves around Ranie spit, but steering further East the entry was fine.

Strong cross tide entering the inner Marina at Watchet.

Dredging appears to be going well. We were half way down between B & C and got out as soon as the gate opened. 1.2m draught.

 

[bitbaltic]

Sounds like a great cruise. Good to hear the dredging at Watchet is going well- that sounds like you were on the west side of B pontoon? We also have 1.2m draft so will look forward to getting over there.

 

[tatali0n]

Friday was indeed lovely. We did Portishead to Cardiff and back. Great, if somewhat varied sailing conditions. The sunset on the return to Portishead was gorgeous. Glad you had such a great weekend, Steveej.

 

[peterhull]

Well done, glad it all went well Steve, you may have heard about the Yacht Collette went on rocks near Watchet Harbour recently.

Apparently hsi engine failed just as he was entering Watchet Harbour. With a strong cross tide and wind in NE he was swept onto rocks.

Luckily nobody hurt and damage to boat minimal I understand

According to West Somerset Press a couple of boats fell over on the quay due to 70mph winds from Katie.

Peter