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Attacked by an Orca near A Coruna

rotrax

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I am no expert on orca attacks

Apparently not.................................. ;)

One mans Orca attack is clearly a Marine Biologist's attempt to find an excuse for the behaviour. We have mostly all agreed and accepted it IS strange behaviour and must have a cause. But whatever the cause, they are clearly attacking boats.

Bottom line is twenty miles offshore with a pod of Orca biting, barging and disableing your small vessel you are only going to call it one thing.

And IMHO, an attack seems the best word.
 
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cherod

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i can totally see where the " Goose " ( ;) ) is coming from ,, what or who do you believe ,, eg , from the same report we get that " the boat was nudged / bumped 15 times and spun round " ,,, also the boat was " attacked and spun round 15 times " ,,,,it is hardly surprising that anyone, let alone someone with some knowledge of the creatures is sceptical of this " unusual " behavour .
 

Irish Rover

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Personally, I do not believe that using the phrase "Give it a rest" is polite. If your intention is to be polite, perhaps you could delete the provocative phrase?

FG has given good reasons why he believes that the word "attack" is not appropriate in this context. If you do not wish to hear his rationale, perhaps you should refrain from reading his posts.

Richard
I did say please. I find the subject interesting but having one poster constantly and repeatedly challenging the use of a particular word across 3 threads is totally off-putting. We read his opinion the 1st time and the 2nd time but please don't keep chastising others because of semantics.
 

jdc

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I have quite a bit of sympathy with FG over his admonition over the use of anthropomorphic words to describe behaviour which we do not properly understand. That the boats had encounters with orcas and sustained damage I don't doubt, and it would certainly have frightened me had I been there, but it is, as acknowledged, an unusual occurrence.

To illustrate the pit-falls of ascribing human motives, consider the viewpoint of the orca: maybe it believes that it was the one being attacked by this horrid thing traveling unnaturally fast with what is effectively a dagger sticking down, endangering it and its children. Perhaps some vigilante group has been formed! The first part is plausible, but the second probably not since it ascribes too anthropomorphic a behaviour, but you see what I mean?

Moving on to something more practical, maybe when near orcas we should all slow down? The X46 which had to be towed into Gibraltar with rudder failure was possibly doing 12 knots+ with an extremely deep (and fragile and quite old but that's a different issue) rudder. Certainly many orcas are killed each year by ships, and it seems that speed has a great deal to do with it.

The analogy with big cats is specious as we have observed over millennia, in fact since before we actually became a distinct species, the hunting of other mammals by leopards or tigers etc so this behaviour is well understood. Although even then I note that when a human goes out to kill something he's "hunting" whereas when a wild animal does the same it's called "attacking".
 

Kelpie

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Is it worth starting a new thread just to discuss the 'incidents' and maybe seek some sort of insight into what factors they could have in common? It's getting a bit tedious wading through this one.
 

laika

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This is just semantic nonsense. If we talk about being "attacked" by an animal we aren't anthropomorphising its motivation (even though anyone who has actually bothered to read that article before commenting will note that anthropomorphising may not be unjustified), we're not speculating on a "motive" (defending its territory? mistakenly seeking food? Defending its family? ) we're just saying that the animal has closed on us to perform some action which is potentially harmful to us.

We have multiple reports of highly unusual behaviour causing damage to boats. I am personally rather more interested comment from actual experts who have a perspective on these incidents and what mitigations we may be able to employ rather than random forumites dropping a couple of non-specific cetacean facts.
 
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cherod

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This is just semantic nonsense. If we talk about being "attacked" by an animal we aren't anthropomorphising its motivation (even though anyone who has actually bothered to read that article before commenting will note that anthropomorphising may not be unjustified), we're not speculating on a "motive" (defending its territory? mistakenly seeking food? Defending its family? ) we're just saying that the animal has closed on us to perform some action which is potentially harmful to us.

We have multiple reports of unprecedented behaviour causing damage to boats. I am personally rather more interested comment from actual experts who have a perspective on these incidents and what mitigations we may be able to employ rather than random forumites seeking self-aggrandisement by dropping a couple of non-specific cetacean facts.
I presume you mean “ experts “ as perhaps those who have studied the species in some detail as opposed to those who have read a newspaper article , am i correct ?
 

rotrax

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Perhaps the experts he means are the ones who have suffered and reported the damaging and violent behaviour of the large marine mammals.

Not the experts marine biologist with a post graduate study of Orca to his name who has not suffered damaging and violent Orca behaviour.
 

cherod

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Perhaps the experts he means are the ones who have suffered and reported the damaging and violent behaviour of the large marine mammals.

Not the experts marine biologist with a post graduate study of Orca to his name who has not suffered damaging and violent Orca behaviour.
I did suspect as much but hoped otherwise , however he may have more to say on it than you or others who claim to be able to read an orcas mind .
 

laika

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I presume you mean “ experts “ as perhaps those who have studied the species in some detail as opposed to those who have read a newspaper article , am i correct ?
There is no claim on my part to be an expert if that's what you're saying: I do claim to have watched Star Trek IV: The voyage home but confess to never having seen Free Willy. We have a bunch of reports of very unusual but very similar behaviours from apparently credible sources, some actually reasonable (for a change) reporting and speculation from a number of academics in those articles who are specifically addressing these particular reports. Said academics I refer to above as "experts" (I don't know their standing in the field of cetacean research but I have no reason to believe they are not) but I'm interested in scientific comment from any credible source. Most of us are wondering why this is happening and what can we do to avoid it happening to us or mitigate the situation if it does.

The nature of Internet forums is that anyone can claim to be an expert. I find people credible if they address the evidence and provide reasoned comment on how others have interpreted that evidence. I’m not convinced when people don't look objectively at all the available evidence because it doesn't conform to their beliefs. That's just not science. YMMV.
 
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FlyingGoose

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There is no claim on my part to be an expert if that's what you're saying: I do claim to have watched Star Trek IV: The voyage home but confess to never having seen Free Willy. We have a bunch of reports of very unusual but very similar behaviours from apparently credible sources, some actually reasonable (for a change) reporting and speculation from a number of academics in those articles who are specifically addressing these particular reports. Said academics I refer to above as "experts" (I don't know their standing in the field of cetacean research but I have no reason to believe they are not) but I'm interested in scientific comment from any credible source. Most of us are wondering why this is happening and what can we do to avoid it happening to us or mitigate the situation if it does.

The nature of Internet forums is that anyone can claim to be an expert. I find people credible if they address the evidence and provide reasoned comment on how others have interpreted that evidence. I’m not convinced when people don't look objectively at all the available evidence because it doesn't conform to their beliefs. That's just not science. YMMV.
Science is not easy and if taking the time to read my posts espcially the last one , I am trying to make sure that science is used
A. We do not know if if is the same pod
B.we do not know if it is an individual from the pod or mass encounters.
C. We assume she is female by the dorsal fin but cannot put age to her
D. We have muliptly reported incidents different days times of days morning noon or night
E. We do not know who was sailing . Motoring
F. When humans experience an incident that can be a scary situation. The body releases hormones to the fright and flight to the nervous system. This creates varying eye witness reports as we perceive the incident differently 2 people may have 2 options of one incident
G. Attack.defend.incident.encounter.bumpng.inquisitive. are all words that can be used in a sentence to describe an encounter
F. It is CLEAR that this is unusual behaviour, but what TYPE of behaviour will be determined using proper scientific PROTOCOLS which the foundation of animal biology is founded on land not by TRIAL by newspaper and forums
I appreciate this does not sit well with those that want to quickly jump to a conclusion and use the word attacked which insinuates a very aggressive response from an animal not known for it aggressive behaviour towards humans
As stated these are the widest spread mammals in the world and encounters with humans are often
Especially in the paffic north west were the reports of boat attacks are extremely rare
So to headline the words attack and get everyone into a frenzy does not bode well for a creature that might find itself more persecuted by humans who now fear it
Will not be long before Fisher men those in large boats decide to try and ram these creatures out of fear
So let the science speak first which will take time before we condemn the orca
 
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FlyingGoose

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Some people might not like my responses they hid behind their post loosy hiding their distaste for me , or anxiety over my posts , but is this not why forums are around to allow debate in a manner fitting of adults.
I may be monotone I may bore people some want to get to the gore of a story and cannot be bothered reading my tripe
Some think that as I am on 3 threads that that is not allowed allow though they are on the same three threads
Others call me out as a fraud I know nothing and a newspaper article is gospel
This to me as an asperger's person is extremely odd behaviour. Part of my social interaction upbringing and my afflicted autism makes me respect all life and I listen with respect to all and treat all as I would like to be treated, fairness integrity, humility and a burning passion for the truth are the bed rock of being aspergers and I sometimes get depressive episodes in my life partly due to how humans have the ability and intention of being rude, intimidating. Bullying fingerprinting and all the other issues we see mainly in a playground
 

laika

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F. When humans experience an incident that can be a scary situation. The body releases hormones to the fright and flight to the nervous system. This creates varying eye witness reports as we perceive the incident differently 2 people may have 2 options of one incident
Good grief there's no "trial" and only one poster in a frenzy of capital letters. The rest of us are simply interested in what the behaviours are, what caused them, what strategies we can adopt to keep our crew safe and potentially what legislation or government action can address any environmental damage which might be driving these animals to exhibit these behaviours if they are prompted by stressors. You can take some time to actually read the reports for a few answers to some of your questions* rather than adding psychology to your expertise list and discounting multiple eye witness reports, none of which were made by anyone called "Appel".

*edit for clarity: the sailing vs motoring question at least and witnesses describing the incidents as feeling "orchestrated" and talking about "they" (the latter could, of course, be simply respecting orca rights to identify as gender neutral) imply an answer to the "individual vs multiple" question , though clearly "why" remains unanswered.
 
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Irish Rover

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@FlyingGoose I don't know how we're supposed to be aware of your condition. I certainly wasn't until now. I thought you were just a very boring and disruptive poster trying to ram your point of view down everyone else's throat. Now that I've been made aware of your Asperger's I understand and apologise for my inadvertently intolerant posts yesterday.
 

Paulg25

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My two-penneth again. From what I read Orcas are known to be territorial and I guess their territory is where there pod happens to be. So it would be normal for them to attack anything they did not like being there.
It may have asked the boat nicely to bugger off but as boats don't speak Orca it got a bit miffed at being ignored! :)
 

FlyingGoose

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Good grief there's no "trial" and only one poster in a frenzy of capital letters. The rest of us are simply interested in what the behaviours are, what caused them, what strategies we can adopt to keep our crew safe and potentially what legislation or government action can address any environmental damage which might be driving these animals to exhibit these behaviours if they are prompted by stressors. You can take some time to actually read the reports for a few answers to some of your questions rather than adding psychology to your expertise list and discounting multiple eye witness reports, none of which were made by anyone called "Appel".
Animal behaviour especially in primates and cetaceans are based on their psychological response this is a fundamental aspect of how we understand their behaviour.
If I may be so bold if one gooles this subject there will be many studies on marine mammals and their social physiological makeup
I was on Tonga a few years back studying humpback whales and their calfs , i was on deep water snorkelling when the mother and calf dived deep , I got separated from my group via the swell and current and lost the whales , the water was poor visability and as I waited a tiger shark was spotted heading my way some depth below I was shit scared as a shark was coming towards me and the mother and calf were around
As I lay flat on the water watching from the gloom I could make out the white markings of large flippers from the female humpback coming up from the gloom straight up towards me as she got closer the shark quickly diverted out of my path as the whale came so close I could have reached out to touch her she veered at the last minute to avoid me and the shark disappeared.
Now I was scared more than I have ever been but the behaviour of the whale I and my extinguished colleagues agreed was probably protecting me from the shark .
Although it is not uncommon for tiger sharks to try and separate calfs from mothers and have a go
The point is the psychology of cetaceans is well documented in the scientific literature as very intelligent non aggressive creatures to man
Believe me or not I do not need validation of my work.my experiences or thoughts , I believe all knowledge should be shared for all and let science determine the truth.
As for spelling my point about playgrounds stands
 
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