At long last, Album on Pionier 10 'PIOTA' completed.

[Krusty]

At long last, an Album to put on record the origin and evolution of a unique Pionier 10 has been completed, with possibly useful information. It might be of interest to someone aiming to make the most of an older design: click on 'Piotaskipper'.

 

[dovekie]

Clearly a labour of love Keith. Both the care of the boat, and the work in the album Thank you.

 

[machurley22]

Well it took you long enough (too much sailing perhaps) but was well worth the wait.

PS - I still can't help wondering why you don't like the H22 but am still afraid to ask.

 

[carrswood]

Nice work Keith.
A testament to you, the legendary van de start design house and one of the sweetest sailing yachts to be fortunate to own!
Aren't we lucky!!

 

[Spuddy]

I'm nearly lost for words. Just clicked thro to your album out of curiosity for the Pioneer but the record of your cruises was .....well, I'm lost for words. Thanks.

 

[Krusty]

Kind comments much appreciated.

 

[webcraft]

.
Great pics Keith.

You are an inspiration. (And we did get to Norway after meeting you in Fort Augustus in early June this year)

- W

 

[KristiferColumbus]

I have got to admit to taking quite a shine to one of these moored near to me this summer without knowing the make/designer & now I know!(lovely looking hull with the lines that seem to flow from stem to stern but what a pity that the shrouds are bolted to the deck right in a position that hampers your acess up forward & the deck at the bows does seem a bit clutered).You are obviously a perfectionist & your profile talks about modifying & building on design Keith,never thought of moving those rigging wires out to a position where they are bolted on plates 'outside the hull'?

 

[carrswood]

I'm guessing the Pioneer 10 you've seen is the good ship Rampion?
I've not seen any others in the solent for a while. Thanks for the words of admiration - she is a pretty yacht. And sails beautifully

Interesting comment about the shrouds and fair comment (see photo) - i'll stand corrected, but for a typically narrow beamed early 1970's design I suspect the shroud positioning is fairly typical of the era

 

[Krusty]

Kris,
I agree the shroud geometry looks awkward, and on first moving around the deck it is: but then you develop the technique of moving outside the lowers and inside the uppers, and come to realise that when the boat is heeled it works quite well.
Designers of the calibre of the Van de Stadt team don't get the essential geometry wrong!
The upper shrouds are certainly in the right place for the Genoa and #1 jib; any further outboard and they could not be sheeted close enough to achieve the windward performance the boat can deliver; and if sheeted inside, what a faffle to bear away!
I suggest taking another look at the 3rd, 5th and 17th pictures on the second page; and the 8th on Page3 (Genoa).
At deck level the uppers are vertical but the lowers are inclined inward towards the hounds, much harder to duck inside: so it makes good sense to set them well inboard to allow crew to go outside easily. Imagine moving about the boat under way in a sea.

I agree the foredeck is cluttered (18th on third page). Given the shroud positions and an opening anchor locker there is not much scope for shifting the pole-sockets. I thought about it before installing ventilators, but they are best where they are. In any case, poles close to the toe-rail are not a great idea: crew need to place feet there!
Of course the skipper could have tidied up a mooring line before clicking a camera!

 

[KristiferColumbus]

I'm guessing the Pioneer 10 you've seen is the good ship Rampion?
I've not seen any others in the solent for a while. Thanks for the words of admiration - she is a pretty yacht. And sails beautifully

Interesting comment about the shrouds and fair comment (see photo) - i'll stand corrected, but for a typically narrow beamed early 1970's design I suspect the shroud positioning is fairly typical of the era

Not the good ship Rampion carrswood.....there is another one though I can't say I've seen her go out all that often.

I know the shroud positioning is common to many & I hate them all
Just a couple more inches & you would have a lovely clear walkway forward,just can't see the excuse for it!

Very lovely boat both above & below the water line (lovely looking keel with no compromise) & even the deck moulding/cabin is lovely.
You are indeed lucky & I am very envious.I'd have a hell of a dilemma if I actually had the money to buy a boat in that league trying to choose between a couple of rivals of about that size.......if only.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

Kris,
I agree the shroud geometry looks awkward, and on first moving around the deck it is: but then you develop the technique of moving outside the lowers and inside the uppers, and come to realise that when the boat is heeled it works quite well.
Designers of the calibre of the Van de Stadt team don't get the essential geometry wrong!
The upper shrouds are certainly in the right place for the Genoa and #1 jib; any further outboard and they could not be sheeted close enough to achieve the windward performance the boat can deliver; and if sheeted inside, what a faffle to bear away!
I suggest taking another look at the 3rd, 5th and 17th pictures on the second page; and the 8th on Page3 (Genoa).
At deck level the uppers are vertical but the lowers are inclined inward towards the hounds, much harder to duck inside: so it makes good sense to set them well inboard to allow crew to go outside easily. Imagine moving about the boat under way in a sea.

I agree the foredeck is cluttered (18th on third page). Given the shroud positions and an opening anchor locker there is not much scope for shifting the pole-sockets. I thought about it before installing ventilators, but they are best where they are. In any case, poles close to the toe-rail are not a great idea: crew need to place feet there!
Of course the skipper could have tidied up a mooring line before clicking a camera!

We are going to have to agree to disagree Keith though I'm sure you have much more experience on the subject.I have an old tub & the sheets all lead outside the rigging to a position just forward of the sheet winch on the deck by the cockpit.I have never noticed any compromise setting the genoa or my strange retinue of foresails.
I would have to do something about that deckspace Keith it would drive me mad but is'nt that the fascination of owning a boat,there is always something to frig about with!