Astute boots Commander Coles

[Boreades]

Bit tough on Andy Coles, after all it only grounded on a sandbank, and it wasn't his fault the tug drove into him as well.

The naval chief in charge of a nuclear-powered submarine which ran aground off the Isle of Skye has been relieved of his command. HMS Astute was being put through sea trials when it was marooned last month.

Navy officials confirmed that Commander Andy Coles, 47, lost his command of the submarine on Friday. He is to remain with the Royal Navy and is to be given another post. A final decision has still to be made about whether he will face a court martial. Royal Navy spokesman said: "It's an internal administrative matter between Commander Coles and his senior officers."
He added that a new commanding officer of HMS Astute would be appointed in the near future.

The vessel was towed free on 22 October after becoming stuck on a shingle bank for about 10 hours, before the tide began to rise. The sub weighs 7,800 tonnes - equivalent to nearly 1,000 double-decker buses
Its nuclear reactor means it will not need refuelling in its entire 25-year life
It makes its own air and water, enabling it to circumnavigate the globe without surfacing
HMS Astute was then damaged during the rescue operation after a collision with the coastguard tug the Anglian Prince, which was sent to free it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11853493

 

[Twister_Ken]

Considering he's just cost the taxpayer £millions, I think he should find a job in Goldman Sachs and be made to pay it back!

 

[Searush]

Everyone loves a having a Scapegoat, except the poor sap selected for the post.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Presumably she''s now known to submariners worldwide as HMS Not Very.

 

[Boreades]

If only we still had an active HMS Newcastle, and the luckless Commander was being transferred there. What a great headline that would have been.

Coles to Newcastle
Not an astute move.

 

[Fantasie 19]

"Pour encourager les autres" perhaps... Navy has lot of capable sub commanders, and not many subs, one strike and you're out would keep them keen when they do get a command..

 

[Sybarite]

<< It makes its own air and water, enabling it to circumnavigate the globe without surfacing >>

I understand the water bit but how does the air thing work?

 

[BurnitBlue]

Court Martial is a bit drastic for an accident. Especially when you consider the murderers and crooks that are back on the streets murdering and crooking. Then there are the thugs that are not even charged.

At least I hope Commander Coles stays in the submarine service to put his expensive training and experience to the nations use.

 

[Boreades]

Now that we're doing joint-venture stuff, he might be able to get a posting to Lanzarote to drive one of their subs.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Now that we're doing joint-venture stuff, he might be able to get a posting to Lanzarote to drive one of their subs.

A Beatles fan indeed.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

In the old days they would have court marshalled him for running maground. But in the old days they would have court marshalled the sailors who surrendered to the Iranians for cowardice. These days, I guess everyone gets counselled instead.

 

[KellysEye]

At the time the submarine went aground her crew had just finished being tested by senior officers who had the power to say whether or not the crew/sub were ready for operations.

The Commader was instructed to take the submarine into shallow waters to drop them the test team off. Had they not instructed him to do that he would never have gone there. It was also pointed out that although the Commander is totally responsible for his command he was intimidated by the fact that his his and crew's future was in the testers hands and thus thought he couldn't say no.

On that basis he shouldn't have been removed from command and certainly shouldn't be court matialled. The test team on the other hand should be reprimanded for ordering the Commader to put the submarine in a dangerous position simply for their own convenience.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

At the time the submarine went aground her crew had just finished being tested by senior officers who had the power to say whether or not the crew/sub were ready for operations.

The Commader was instructed to take the submarine into shallow waters to drop them the test team off. Had they not instructed him to do that he would never have gone there. It was also pointed out that although the Commander is totally responsible for his command he was intimidated by the fact that his his and crew's future was in the testers hands and thus thought he couldn't say no.

On that basis he shouldn't have been removed from command and certainly shouldn't be court matialled. The test team on the other hand should be reprimanded for ordering the Commader to put the submarine in a dangerous position simply for their own convenience.

A court-martial could exonerate him or at least make it clear what his actual error was. There's always something you can be done for - the military's no different to civvy street in that respect.

Regardless of that, if the Master of any vessel can be intimidated into making a bad decision they need to take a look at themselves (yes, I have made the error myself in the past and hopefully learnt from it). If the the Master of one of the RN's strategic nuclear powered and presumably nuclear-armed submarines can be intimidated there's a very real problem.

 

[bedouin]

I thought it was almost automatic that the captain of a vessel that went aground would face a court martial - certainly happened to the captain (and nav officer IIRC) of HMS Nottingham a few years ago

 

[Fantasie 19]

<< It makes its own air and water, enabling it to circumnavigate the globe without surfacing >>

I understand the water bit but how does the air thing work?

Carbon dioxide scrubbers... when I left school I worked for a company that made them for a couple of years

 

[DownWest]

Yes, grounding or loss is an automatic CM. My cousin flew his helo into the sea on the way back from an exercise. Lost his observer. Severe reprimand and some loss of seniorority. In peace time that was the kiss of death, so he resigned and was last heard flying in the far East.

 

[Seajet]

I agree with KellysEye, the Commander has been used as a scapegoat; the clue as to why is in the phrase 'more senior officers ordered him to...' Can't be their fault now, can it ?

I did my YMO with a Navy Navigator, he reckoned if any ship he was on even touched the bottom it was he who would definitely face a CM, maybe the C/O as well, which seems right to me.

BTW, Grumpy OG, Astute is tactical - hunter killer - not strategic - ballistic nukes, though the definition is a bit blurred when TLAM land attack cruise missiles are carried, such as Astute will have, making her an SSGN...

 

[capnsensible]

Carbon dioxide scrubbers... when I left school I worked for a company that made them for a couple of years

CO2 scrubbers are a part of the equation. The 'how to make air' bit is by electrlysis. Pass a current through water and with some cleverness you get H2 plus O. Ditch the H bit, keep the O.

Also done by a kind of pyrotechnic device that burns slowly to evolve O. A few years ago this system made headlines when one exploded, sadly killing a crew member.

Snorting...basically sticking up an air tube, is still practised too.

Thats stirred a few memory cells!

 

[BurnitBlue]

There's always something you can be done for - the military's no different to civvy street in that respect.

Conduct prejudicial to good discipline.

Not acting in an airmanlike manner.

Were two catchalls I recall that were always tagged on to any charge.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I agree with KellysEye, the Commander has been used as a scapegoat; the clue as to why is in the phrase 'more senior officers ordered him to...' Can't be their fault now, can it ?

I did my YMO with a Navy Navigator, he reckoned if any ship he was on even touched the bottom it was he who would definitely face a CM, maybe the C/O as well, which seems right to me.

BTW, Grumpy OG, Astute is tactical - hunter killer - not strategic - ballistic nukes, though the definition is a bit blurred when TLAM land attack cruise missiles are carried, such as Astute will have, making her an SSGN...

Hence strategic with a lower case s. The concept of tactical nuclear weapons has always been something of an oxymoron. They cannot be used without explicit authority from strategic commanders and even the Navy would have trouble stretching the definition of Hunter-Killer to include the launch platform for a 1500nm range missile.

I don't see where the senior officer piece fits into it. He's the Ship's (boat's) Master - it doesn't matter if the Queen's on board, he is responsible. Goes with the territory - they can do him for refusing to obey orders and then let the court-martial decide if he was right to refuse to jeopardise the boat's safety in peacetime but, if he decides to follow those orders, he's responsible.