Liferafts .too big?

[geem]

sure - but hose screenshots make it look a lot more crowded than it actually is.

those ship icons are probably a couple of miles long.

anyway - for those worried about being cold; there is no reason four people in a 6 man life raft can't huddle together if they are cold. But six in a 6-man can't get farther apart if they are too warm - which I found to be terrible in the class. Of course, being cold is more likely than being too warm.

but, especially if you are in cold waters, select one with an insulated floor. Often these are a double floor, and I think they also incorporate some of the reflective and other technology used for inflatable camping sleeping pads. Some of hose pads have quite good R values for something that's inflatable. Also, pack lightweight reflective "space blanket" bags in your ditch kit. The bags are better than the sheets, at least I think.

of course, in a fully packed life raft, you won't be able to get into one of those bags...

If I was sailing in cold water I would also consider a few of those chemical heating packs in the ditch bag.

My response was to the suggestion that you may have to spend weeks in a liferaft in an ocean. This isn't correct. If you have a PLB, EPIRB Inreach, you are hours from rescue not weeks. The only people that have spent weeks in a liferaft were in one and nobody new about it.

 

[Sea Change]

Where are all these two person rafts that people keep talking about? Outside of specialised aviation gear, which isn't really the best choice for a boat, the smallest commonly available rafts are four person.

 

[vyv_cox]

On an offshore survival course I recall being taught not to oversize. To emphasize the point we were shown a horrific video of a biggish raft (8 or 10 man?) with one or two people in it rolling down big seas.

 

[bedouin]

Where are all these two person rafts that people keep talking about? Outside of specialised aviation gear, which isn't really the best choice for a boat, the smallest commonly available rafts are four person.

Ever heard of Google

Here is one:
https://www.mylorchandlery.co.uk/liferafts/waypoint-2-person-coastal-single-tube-liferaft-valise/

That is small and light, less than 7.5kg they claim. A typical 6 man would be 40kg+ I know which I would rather be handling in an emergency.

For sailing anywhere around UK/European waters you are likely to be picked up in hours rather than days (if you have a PLB) so you may think the lighter one is adequate. When I replace mine (very soon now) I expect to get the smaller/lighter style for the benefit of stowing, handling and deploying.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

On an offshore survival course I recall being taught not to oversize. To emphasize the point we were shown a horrific video of a biggish raft (8 or 10 man?) with one or two people in it rolling down big seas.

That happens when fully loaded as well. Except now there are more people on the low side. You have to hold on, if you can’t, you fall down to the low side. I know this from the old environmental pool at Robert Gordon’s in Aberdeen in the early days of “offshore survival course” as it was colloquially known. You may have done this course, as I think you worked for Shell and could have travelled offshore.

 

[vyv_cox]

That happens when fully loaded as well. Except now there are more people on the low side. You have to hold on, if you can’t, you fall down to the low side. I know this from the old environmental pool at Robert Gordon’s in Aberdeen in the early days of “offshore survival course” as it was colloquially known. You may have done this course, as I think you worked for Shell and could have travelled offshore.

Yes, a couple there and one at Fleetwood.

 

[Sea Change]

Ever heard of Google

Here is one:
https://www.mylorchandlery.co.uk/liferafts/waypoint-2-person-coastal-single-tube-liferaft-valise/

That is small and light, less than 7.5kg they claim. A typical 6 man would be 40kg+ I know which I would rather be handling in an emergency.

For sailing anywhere around UK/European waters you are likely to be picked up in hours rather than days (if you have a PLB) so you may think the lighter one is adequate. When I replace mine (very soon now) I expect to get the smaller/lighter style for the benefit of stowing, handling and deploying.

Interesting. It says in the advert that they are new, so my apologies for not keeping up. I haven't been in the market for a liferaft for a few years.
When did they come out?

 

[bedouin]

Interesting. It says in the advert that they are new, so my apologies for not keeping up. I haven't been in the market for a liferaft for a few years.
When did they come out?

I am not sure - the aero ones have been around for ever but the smaller/lighter ones aimed at marine use seem to be fairly new. I think there are at least 3 different makes on the market that start with 2 man.

I am in the market for a new liferaft fairly soon and I am attracted by the smaller / lighter design because I have trouble finding a good place to keep my current canister.

Here is a 4 man version:
Revere Aero Compact Liferaft 4 person with Free UK Mainland Shipping

That is about a quarter of the size and weight of a conventional 4 man canister (unfortunately the same can't be said of the cost)

 

[johnalison]

My response was to the suggestion that you may have to spend weeks in a liferaft in an ocean. This isn't correct. If you have a PLB, EPIRB Inreach, you are hours from rescue not weeks. The only people that have spent weeks in a liferaft were in one and nobody new about it.

In other words, it does happen occasionally. OK, not often these days, but I would prefer not to assume that any of my electronic equipment is infallible.

 

[capnsensible]

I would rather be one of two people in a six man liferaft than .....no liferaft. Whatever size, in roughers, its gonna be intensly uncomfortable and vomit inducing. Most people's thinking gets very muddled. Like others, I've been trained in this stuff.

 

[Sea Change]

In other words, it does happen occasionally. OK, not often these days, but I would prefer not to assume that any of my electronic equipment is infallible.

Float free EPIRB, PLB on each lifejacket, inReach kept at the companionway... you'd be pretty unlucky to lose all of these devices.

When we were crossing the Atlantic, we had family following our tracking via the inReach and with a satellite AIS subscription. If those had gone offline for a few hours they would have known something was wrong, and have had our last known position.

You'd have to be in a pretty far flung part of the world to end up in a liferaft for more than a day or two.

 

[capnsensible]

The Pacific. Quite a few yachts sail there but the distances are enormous.

 

[geem]

I would rather be one of two people in a six man liferaft than .....no liferaft. Whatever size, in roughers, its gonna be intensly uncomfortable and vomit inducing. Most people's thinking gets very muddled. Like others, I've been trained in this stuff.

Me to. Very cramped. The water sachets in the liferaft are heavily chlorinated. Taste foul. The advice of rescue services who practise in a liferaft is to drink very little for the first few hours. Don't touch the biscuits for 24 hrs. You will be sick. The motion is terrible.
The advice is to keep yourself as dry as possible. The chafing off the seams inside the liferaft will rub your skin off. Worse if you are wet and salty. Dry the liferaft inside as much as possible.

 

[geem]

Float free EPIRB, PLB on each lifejacket, inReach kept at the companionway... you'd be pretty unlucky to lose all of these devices.

When we were crossing the Atlantic, we had family following our tracking via the inReach and with a satellite AIS subscription. If those had gone offline for a few hours they would have known something was wrong, and have had our last known position.

You'd have to be in a pretty far flung part of the world to end up in a liferaft for more than a day or two.

Ditto. Inreach, PLB each. AIS tracker also in each lifejacket. In addition, we have two EPIRBS.

 

[LittleSister]

Float free EPIRB, PLB on each lifejacket, inReach kept at the companionway...

Ditto. Inreach, PLB each. AIS tracker also in each lifejacket. In addition, we have two EPIRBS.

I'd have to sell my boat to be able to afford all that kit plus a liferaft!

People seem very, almost unreasonably, afraid of dying. As I see it, I'm not young, it won't make much difference in the wider scheme of things if I were to die now, rather than in 5, 10, or whatever years (and would avoid having to endure having my bottom wiped by someone else in some god-forsaken care home). I'll be missed by a few whenever and however I go.

The chances of needing a liferaft (or most of the other kit) in typical coastal cruising around the UK/Western Europe is vanishingly small (as someone may have said above). I'm more likely to die from falling overboard (especially, though not only, when I'm single-handed), or driving to or from the boat, or from a heart attack, than my boat sinking or catching fire.

I have no problem with other people buying whatever kit they want, but don't feel the need myself.

Happy sailing!

 

[geem]

I'd have to sell my boat to be able to afford all that kit plus a liferaft!

People seem very, almost unreasonably, afraid of dying. As I see it, I'm not young, it won't make much difference in the wider scheme of things if I were to die now, rather than in 5, 10, or whatever years (and would avoid having to endure having my bottom wiped by someone else in some god-forsaken care home). I'll be missed by a few whenever and however I go.

The chances of needing a liferaft (or most of the other kit) in typical coastal cruising around the UK/Western Europe is vanishingly small (as someone may have said above). I'm more likely to die from falling overboard (especially, though not only, when I'm single-handed), or driving to or from the boat, or from a heart attack, than my boat sinking or catching fire.

I have no problem with other people buying whatever kit they want, but don't feel the need myself.

Happy sailing!

In a month we will be crossing the Atlantic again. Antigua to Azores then on to the UK. Next year we will cross back to the Caribbean. What you need/want for an ocean crossing is quite different to UK coastal cruising. If we were permanently back in the UK, we would remove a fair amount of stuff. We wouldn't need anything like the tools and spares, watermaker, Jordan series drogue, bimini, etc. Once you get out of VHF range and you are 1000nm from land you need to consider the what if?

 

[Refueler]

I have a four person Seago and usually sail with 1-3 on board. But my biggest concern would be deploying. OK if sinking in a calm! But in real conditions I would struggle to manouver it to a place to inflate free from rigging. Alone I would probably choose the inflated dinghy in davits! But I am sailing UK coastal waters so the liferaft is more a reassurance than a used piece of kit.

You do not inflate on deck etc.

Dump the uninflated bag and all overside - then pull like hell on the painter ...

 

[Refueler]

That happens when fully loaded as well. Except now there are more people on the low side. You have to hold on, if you can’t, you fall down to the low side. I know this from the old environmental pool at Robert Gordon’s in Aberdeen in the early days of “offshore survival course” as it was colloquially known. You may have done this course, as I think you worked for Shell and could have travelled offshore.

The 'early days' for Cadets (MN) was to actually be outside the harbour in actual seas .... mine was outside Plymouth Bay in February ---- we were in #8 working gear and BoT kapok lifejackets ... then booted of the deck of College Yacht - Tectona into the freezing cold waters ... swim to the raft and then get in ...
Trouble was staff on Tectona had forgotten to give us the pump - we couldn't pump up the floor - so it was all 'floppy and no insulation from the freezing water around. Myself and another lad by time we were 'rescued' were suffering onset of Hypothermia .....
Our shouts and cries to Tectona were ignored as they thought we were just being typical 'loud cadets' ....

2 years later - all Survival Courses were in Swimming Pools due to H&SE .....

Interestingly later when Survival Courses were obligatory and had to have a Certificate issued - I of course was asked for mine .. but Plymougt never issued any for that old style course. I contacted Plymouth and was told they could not issue any Cert. because no individual names were recorded - only the class as a group.
When I passed that info on ... I rec'd a reply - Oh yes ! We know ... OK - no worries. !! I came ashore before it became an issue for me !!

 

[ashtead]

I should have said our Seago 4 man now just about fits under the cockpit sole in the stern walk though -if we lowered the stern ramp it’s not that far to the briny,an advantage of twin wheels I guess. On our last boat the seago in valise on channel crossings with single wheel sat in front of table mid cockpit and form a sort of infill forward of the table -deployment would have been more tricky probably than current location in stern walkthrough. One drawn back of using the walkthrough space is the liferaft in valise has to fit which I doubt the more pricy versions would work. The trick is not to have in a cockpit locker ideally .

 

[bitbaltic]

For me it would depend on whether I was doing offshore or ocean sailing. You would be unlucky not to be picked up within a day in home waters but might have to live in the raft for weeks in the ocean.

Agree with this as a general strategy. A liferaft is there for reasons in ocean sailing (all reasons), stress of weather in offshore sailing with probable 24hr horizon to a rescue, and for coastal sailing for fire or just because everyone else has one. We used to have an offshore 6 man but we just coastal sail in practice so have a tiny and lightweight lalizas unit. Needless to say have never used it and can’t imagine using it, but it closes out an itch to have it in a locker.