Your Thoughts on Shared Ownership?

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Hi

Is this the way forward for boating? It seems to me that if the syndicate is managed properly this has to be a great idea.

If you think about it we only get a small ammount of use out of our boats but end up footing the all of the bill, if a boat is located somewhere you can use it most of the year it means that you can enjoy a biger boat on a small boat budget.

I know there was some bad publicity from Mallorca about a year ago, does anyone have any experiences or thoughts on this?
 
I think the problems come with different expectations...

For example if the agreement is that the boat will be left "clean" then what is "Clean"

For some, they would be happy to arrive use the boat, run a hose over it and away they go - however the next person may percieve clean to be a full valet inside and out...

I am sure it can work very well, however i am also sure there can be problems!
 
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I think the problems come with different expectations...

For example if the agreement is that the boat will be left "clean" then what is "Clean"

For some, they would be happy to arrive use the boat, run a hose over it and away they go - however the next person may percieve clean to be a full valet inside and out...

I am sure it can work very well, however i am also sure there can be problems!

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I was thinking that maybe the mangement company would do the clean for a fee and also keep the boat in shape regarding servicing and repairs etc.
 
Personally, no way.

I'd prefer to have a smaller boat that's mine and I can use whenever I like rather than have a bigger boat that I can only use some of the time.

Part of the joys of ownership to me are just being able to go down and spend some time sitting on-board or doing little jobs/polishing/cleaning etc.
 
So if you were to "share ownership" it would need to be on a personal level that allows you to do just that .... so the other parties need to be family or close friends
 
I am guessing that the shared schemes that work the best are like that - i.e. a management co looking after all the maintainence, for as you say a fee, and then you have hassle-free boating.

Whilst this management will cost something, it's probably vastly cheaper than owning and running a decent boat outright.

I have often wondered if this would be a better bet for me than running the older boat I can afford - however I like being able to just up and at-em whenever I feel like it.
 
The problem is that people do not want to compromise on their ability to use the boat when they want to and they argue about how the costs are shared over the year based on usage not %share they own.

I agree with the idea, as I set up syndicates and the idea is for them to be managed ie cleaning, maintenance etc etc

You can save a great deal of money for little compromise but people are just not interested in it. You have to ensure it is a good scheme - I though Challenger was my closest competition but alas people just did not do their homework - you must have security in the way of titled ownership.
 
IMHO, if you're going to enter into a syndicate arrangement which gives you only a few weeks of use every year, you might as well charter. At least with chartering, you can choose when, where and what boat to use and, when you're done, hand the keys back without worrying about depreciation, maintenance and all the other boating headaches. In addition, given the present economic climate, I'm sure that charter rates for some boats will be heavily discounted making charter potentially cheaper than shared ownership
On the other hand, shared ownership can work between a small number of people, maybe 2, max 3, assuming that the owners have complimentary requirements and have similar attitudes to maintenance. I once owned a boat with a friend but we fell out over maintenance; basically I wanted the boat 100% all the time but he wasn't happy to commit the time or money. However it can work for some. We did once meet a delightful retired couple who shared a boat with a family with school age kids. The family only wanted to use the boat during school holidays and the retired couple were happy to do most of their boating outside school holiday times so it worked for them
 
I understand your thoughts on chartering possibly being easier/cheaper but if the boat is a couple of years old at the start of the syndicate I guess it will have taken a big hit on value already and spread over a 3 or 5 year period do you not think it would be cheaper than chartering and give regular boating?

Another thing that has been pointed out to me is that you have an asset with a value at the end of the syndicate.
 
I've been in a couple of syndicates usually 3 people. In my experience you need to choose carefully those that you share with. It can work and be a great experience. IMHO a syndicate of 2 works well with someone you have known for some time, plenty of time of reach to enjoy the boat and costs halved. A very clear agreement is needed before you start.
 
Mmm, it depends on how much it costs you to buy into the syndicate. Without stating the obvious, you're buying a share of an asset and you should make sure you're not paying too high a price for that share relative to the value of the asset. The syndicate share prices I've seen always seem to me to be much higher than the value of the asset. Don't forget, at the end of it all, the boat will be sold and it will have high hours and plenty of use so it won't fetch top dollar and you will pay for that depreciation
 
Granted you need to buy at the right value relative to the current market but I dont hold with the high hours bit, I would rather have engines with high hours and a good history than ones that are 5 years old, low hours, dodgy history and have sat on a berth most of their life!

Also, in theory!!! if each member is paying a set fee into a management fund the money is always ther for the upkeep of the boat.

The depreciation one is intersting aswell because although I agree it will be higher on a syndicated boat you are only looking at a percentage of it yourself, ie 10% of 100k =10k - 20% of 33k =6.6k

Guess its all about getting a good management set up together with the right owners.
 
I have been exploring shared ownership and I think there are some clear positive and minus points.

I think Deleted User is right that a syndicate where you have a 1/8th share and the boat is chartered part of the time, is not for everyone. I looked at a couple of Schemes in Majorca and whilst well run, I would probably charter and take my choice rather than tie up the cash for now.

The option I have looked at is a simple 50/50 share, where ownership of the boat is in the title, as for me its not so much the buying of the boat, but sharing the running costs.

If you can find the right partner, who shares a like minded view of boating, then its a nice easy split of 26 weeks each, with a mini draw for the peak months if required. You can get twice as much boat, and the best bit is the running costs are half, so you dont get that 'I need to justify the boat by being there' thought every now and then.

If you can keep it reasonably relaxed and accept that one partner or family may stay more weeks on the boat than you, or perhaps put more hours on the engines, as long as the boat is clean refuelled and looked after, then IMHO will work.

There are some details about how do you have an exit in case of something outside everyones control, or how long do you keep the boat before reselling it on, but most of that is detail.

The other immotive area is possesions, but again if you agree a storage policy, where your gear is stored in a private area, then I think that can work as well.

I think the trick is finding the right partner, that's probably the hardest bit!
 
Shared ownership will only work if you have the right mindset for it and generally speaking, works better if you are not close to the boat - if you live closeby ie in the UK, you will prob be inclined to spend more time on the boat than if it is in Europe where you have to book flights etc.

The maximum number of people you can share with and have a good amount of time usage is 5 - any more than that and you will lose the ability to use the boat when you want to. Less is always better but then will cost you more - it all depends on how low you want your costs.

I too have noticed that most schemes are well overpriced. The scheme management should be able to negotiate on the purchase price so that their commission in the first instance does not impact too much on the price. But do remember that you are only paying a % and therefore will always be saving money. The boat should not cost any more than in the region of 10% over and above the market values.

The boat should be well looked after by using the annual service fees - there should be contracts for cleaning and engine maintenance using independant companies. By owning the boat, it is hoped that people would look after the boat as it is in their interest to for the later sale values.

When the boat is sold, you will only be losing a % of the final figure - do remember that you will always lose on a boat, ti depreciates but the amount you lose can be reduced. And, as most people finance their purchase, you will be saving the interest payable over those few years.

The boat should not be chartered at all and there should not be any finance whatsoever. This is to protect the ownership should anything go wrong.

Sorry its a bit long but these are the main areas to look at....
 
fair comment, however, to say the boat should not be financed depends on the scheme you are in. There may well be advantages to financing both personal and to the management company. Can not comment on others schemes but on ours you are only liable for your share not the whole vessel if things go wrong. because we are a main distributor of the product we are able to supply the vessel into the scheme at less than retail and we also underwrite the value of the vessel and buy back your share if you want out so you have no risk trying to resell it.
 
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Granted you need to buy at the right value relative to the current market but I dont hold with the high hours bit, I would rather have engines with high hours and a good history than ones that are 5 years old, low hours, dodgy history and have sat on a berth most of their life

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We have argued this old chestnut many times before on the forum. The fact is that the market values a low hours boat at a higher price than a high hours one. In the case of a syndicate boat, a 5yr old boat with 1000hrs and 10 owners is never going to be worth as much as a 200hr boat with 1 owner, however diligently the syndicate boat is maintained
 
I have done this twice, each time with 3 in the syndicate. Works well, makes loads of sense, provided you get the right 3 people, ie same attitudes to maintenance etc, and very laid back. Also make sure all 3 have plenty of spare capacity to spend money. Personally I'd avoid a management co as they are an extra hassle factor with no ownership skin in the game. Much better to manage the synidicate privately imho. 2 or 3 in the syndicate is the right number imho

Even when my syndicate came to an end (first one party pulled out, then the other, for family/personal/getting too old for boats reasons) it was all amicable.

The crucuial part though is to find nice people. My two syndicate partners were always perfect gents and completely reasonable throughout the 4 years or so that we ran the syndicate
 
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