YM exclusive interview with Charlie Sturrock of Liquid Vortex.

[Simondjuk]

What you're saying then is that his ports of refuge were places he could use in benign weather.

That'd be great.... except of course from the glaringly obvious fact that exceptionally heavy weather was widely forecast and occurred.

The point you are trying to make is ludicrous.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Id be interested to see the forcasts and actual wind for the day.

They set off at 14:30.
http://www.chimet.co.uk/archive/2012/January/HTML/Chi02Jan2012.html

This is Chi, of course.

 

[Koeketiene]

In a 5-7 you mean? (Note the word BEFORE).

Dover, behind the wall at Newhaven. In a 5 I'd cheerfully go into Shoreham or Brighton if the tides were all right.

Apparently they were 1 mile off Dover in an 8. I'm sure you can enter Dover in an 8.

As it happened, of course, they didn't duck in anywhere, but I didn't say they had.

Dover
The port was closed - wouldn't even let them in with the RNLI in attendance!

 

[sailorman]

Dover
The port was closed - wouldn't even let them in with the RNLI in attendance!

better to beg forgiveness than seek permission

 

[Simondjuk]

(Note the word BEFORE).

Ok then, I'll do that too if it pleases you...

before the 'possible' 10 arrived

9 comes before 10 if I'm not mistaken. So where would have been good in a 9?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

What you're saying then is that his ports of refuge were places he could use in benign weather.

<sigh>

I said:

"They didn't set out into a F11. They set out with a forecst 5-7 Possibly 10 later & plenty of sheltered places to duck into before the 'possible' 10 arrived."

They could have popped into Brighton, Newhaven or Shoreham very easily long before the 10 was forecast and LONG before any wind of any note arrived. (Actually looking at the tides going behind the wall at Newhaven might have been better.)

They could have carried on and entered Dover in an F8 which I'm sure is possible.

That's just fact. You might not like it, but it's fact.

 

[VO5]

Ok then, I'll do that too if it pleases you...



9 comes before 10 if I'm not mistaken. So where would have been good in a 9?

So where else then....or what else ?

 

[sailorman]

<sigh>

I said:

"They didn't set out into a F11. They set out with a forecst 5-7 Possibly 10 later & plenty of sheltered places to duck into before the 'possible' 10 arrived."

They could have popped into Brighton, Newhaven or Shoreham very easily long before the 10 was forecast and LONG before any wind of any note arrived. (Actually looking at the tides going behind the wall at Newhaven might have been better.)

They could have carried on and entered Dover in an F8 which I'm sure is possible.

That's just fact. You might not like it, but it's fact.

or made a decision earlier & headed for Boulogne

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Dover
The port was closed - wouldn't even let them in with the RNLI in attendance!

If YM is to be believed with the forecast they left to they should have (in theory) been able to make Dover. According to YM they were 1 mile away from Dover in a F8.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

or made a decision earlier & headed for Boulogne

Personally, from what YM says, I'd have stopped at Brighton, Shoreham or Newhaven any of which would have been a doddle at the time they'd have arrived, but yeah, other options as well.

 

[Simondjuk]

<sigh>

I said:

"They didn't set out into a F11. They set out with a forecst 5-7 Possibly 10 later & plenty of sheltered places to duck into before the 'possible' 10 arrived."

They could have popped into Brighton, Newhaven or Shoreham very easily long before the 10 was forecast and LONG before any wind of any note arrived. (Actually looking at the tides going behind the wall at Newhaven might have been better.)

They could have carried on and entered Dover in an F8 which I'm sure is possible.

That's just fact. You might not like it, but it's fact.

They could have done anything if you pick and chose the conditions, but that's not how it works. So fact as it may be, it's worthless fact. You don't want to see that though, do you?

 

[Pete R]

All these arguments just add to my opinion that this "Exclusive Interview" was absolute rubbish. There are so many questions that remain unanswered on the decisions made by the skipper. I am not trying to hang him and infact cannot, on the facts we have, see any offence he might have committed. I am just interested in WHY?

Now if there is some reason he couldn't or wouldn't answer certain questions then maybe YM should have stated that.

 

[NealB]

On the other hand, whatever happened to only sailing to the capacity of your weakest crew-member? Seems (at face value based on the info here) like a joint failure between HL accepting almost anyone with 225 quid burning a hole in their pocket and the skipper for failing to adapt to this.

"Sailing to the capacity of your weakest crew-member"....an interesting idea, that I've never heard of before.

Maybe I'm not interpreting it in the way intended, but I can't see how that could possibly work.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

All these arguments just add to my opinion that this "Exclusive Interview" was absolute rubbish. There are so many questions that remain unanswered on the decisions made by the skipper. I am not trying to hang him and infact cannot, on the facts we have, see any offence he might have committed. I am just interested in WHY?

In spite of the lack of actual input from the people involved [1] I think the 'WHY' was answered from CS's perspective in his own words in the last but one paragraph.

He say's they had a 12-24hr weather window which they pushed to the absolute limit. It seems they bet on getting to Dover by 6-7am with the weather coming through mid-morning.

IMHO we've all played fast and loose with weather windows. (Usually on a Friday night: "If we go right now we can get to Alderney before it arrives and, and coming back it will be behind us.")


EDIT: These are the posts from someone on the boat. http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5300207 You can work out who it probably is from the news reports but I won't name her. I've put then here to make them a bit more accessible as it took me ages to find them. (newman123)


[1] Agree the article was pretty poor. I think 'exclusive interview' might mean 'hurried phone conversation before he put the phone down' because there wasn't much quoted from CS. (Or indeed Patrick Smart.) The article could have been a lot clearer as well, a timeline would have been nice.

 

[A1Sailor]

EDIT: These are the posts from someone on the boat. http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5300207 You can work out who it probably is from the news reports but I won't name her. I've put then here to make them a bit more accessible as it took me ages to find them.

Toad, The link goes to a page that says "Sorry - no matches"

 

[Pete R]

Toad, The link goes to a page that says "Sorry - no matches"

For me too....

In spite of the lack of actual input from the people involved

But that is what I would expect from an interview. I am interested to read what his actual decision making process was not what you think it was.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

But that is what I would expect from an interview. I am interested to read what his actual decision making process was not what you think it was.

I think the 'WHY' was answered from CS's perspective in his own words in the last but one paragraph.

???

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Toad, The link goes to a page that says "Sorry - no matches"

Weird, works for me. It's just a search for the posts of newman123.

 

[Pete R]

I think the 'WHY' was answered

I will say one more time just in case you don't get it, although you should, since you quoted yourself above. I don't care what you think! I am only interested in the skippers thoughts.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I will say one more time just in case you don't get it, although you should, since you quoted yourself above. I don't care what you think!

<sigh>

The "WHY" you're asking for is there, where I said it is, in the article, in CS's words in quotes.