yet another YM question

a 180 deg turn would be dangerous too..... if he alters to starboard as he should do (assuming he's seen you!), then that wouldn't help....

Denbigh is IMHO right above.... a healthy turn to starboard for a few mins, and then back on track, combined with very close attention to the radar...

Perhaps wise to follow some of the other advice above as well, and issue out lifejackets..... and perhaps a VHF call....
 
Firstly, you kind of have to hope/assume that a vessel travelling this fast also has a radar and has seen you on his radar.

The rules say that slow down to a speed at which you can maintain course, and you shouldnt alter course to port or towards the vessel.

So I would slow down and alter course to starboard, probably by 90 degrees.

If you were doing 6 knots, and slow to say 1.5 knots, and assuming the 2 plots were around 5 minutes apart, the other vessel should pass around 1 mile ahead.

The danger in this action could be that the other vessel decides to alter course to starboard, but only by a few degrees, rather than a bold alteration.
 
An interesting one.

I would make a substantial alteration of course to starboard. The is both a correct thing to do and the safe option.

At the very least you have now minimised your relative velocities, giving yourself the most time to react.

If he hasn't seen you then he will pass safely. If he has seen you your change of course will not have a significant impact on the action he will take
 
The problem I have with all of these questions is visualising quite what is happening as the situation unfolds. In my experience, it's blindingly obvious whether a threat exisits or not and it's sitting on your hands that leads to probs.

In my few years of Xchannelling in fog and crap weather only once have I had a brown trouser moment and that was when the Condor ferry crept up our radar shadow in thick fog at night off Anvil Point. We could hear the noise of the engines but couldn't see a thing and assumed that it was a heli. Only when it was extremely close (could hear the bow wave and smell the engines, wind from behind) were we aware that it was a craft (lamp on mainsail, life jackets already on, cycle clips around bottom of sallopettes).

I'm still here, so they must have missed us, but God knows how.
 
Hee hee... not funny really is it....

I have done several Plymouth to channel island crossing in thick fog with no radar, and there is nothing, I repeat nothing, more terrifying than the 'brooooom' of a ships fog horn when you have no idea where it is!
 
"The vessel has remained at a constant bearing on the radar, so its course can be precisely understood.... it is off your port bow on a converging course, or alternative you are fine on its starboard bow...."

At the speed you have described (it was within 2 Nm) & on a collision course at 50 Knts? Its now almost too late to do much.

Just get your lifejackets on, everyone on deck, liferaft prepared to deploy, nav lights on, engine on & like stink, turn------------

(1) 180 deg. - 'He' is now overtaking vessel & is 'give way' vessel.
(2) Turn 90 deg - You are now a larger target for 'his' radar hopefully. Obviously, ideally you would want to pass Port/Port.

However, turn 90 deg to Starboard & at this speed of approach, you probably wouldn't get across his bow.
Turn 90 deg to Port & you could assist in the collision, since he would be turning to his starboard to avoid.

----- or "just slow down, even hove too until he passes in front" (now no possibility of any manouvering ability)

The probability that he will hit seems very high, so should you hit your DSC distress button/fire 'red' flares (more easily seen than white in fog) in anticipation that it is going to happen?

You are effectively reliant almost entirely upon the other vessel spotting you & taking avoiding action in time. Bit worrying that he's got that close already without doing something.
 
Its only doing 20kts...... Surely you wouldn't hit your distress button for a ship still 2nm away..... thats still 6 minutes away at his speed!

secondly, he isn't give way vessel, even if you turn 180 degrees, unless he can see you visually....

A turn to starboard of reasoanable amount and you'd never cross his bow, you'd go behind his stern......
 
I've been scared shitless by the poxy Condor ferry. Beneteau First Class 8, No wind, 4 hp outboard, weedy radar reflector, can hardly see the bows of my own boat. Ship wouldn't feel a thing...

I sent out a PanPan but never got any response.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have done several Plymouth to channel island crossing in thick fog with no radar, and there is nothing, I repeat nothing, more terrifying than the 'brooooom' of a ships fog horn when you have no idea where it is!



[/ QUOTE ]

You will be OK nowadays as you almost never hear a fog horn from a ship! I think they don't want to hoot as to do so is an acceptance that the visibility has reached a point at which they should slow down?

A lot of replies have had their own vessel altering course all over the place but this has a major drawback that your own (radar) view of the situation is now totally confused as it takes some time for the relative motion 'video' to settle down after each and every course and/or speed change. IMO this is why in fog a dedicated radar operator, and I prefer that to be at the chart table, is much better than a committee operating around the wheel pedestal. The other major consideration in a busy area like the Channel is not to get in the way of another boat (or more) in avoiding the first.
 
While we are on such an interesting discussion what are the experienced Formites opinion of how far is it safe to cross in front of a ship in bad visibility and using Radar?

Following that how far in good visibility using eyeball?
 
"thats still 6 minutes away at his speed"

Yes, but its still only 6 mins - has he seen you? The bearing hasn't changed, so a collision probability from your viewpoint is high.

If there is ANY possibility that I am going to get hurt (one of my allergies), I see no problem in hitting the button.

You can't do it 'after' he hits, but if its a 'miss' I can call up & cancel the alert (after I've cleaned my pants of course).

Unless your in a narrow channel/crossing a TSS/Shipping lane, this guy needs to explain why he continued on course & nearly caused a collision (assuming you are a good radar target), even if he is commercial.

Assuming its not just be someone from the MoBo forum, who has bought his first boat (a Sunseeker from LIBS) & not passed his Day Skipper Theory yet, wanting to frighten a raggie! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

A lot of replies have had their own vessel altering course all over the place but this has a major drawback that your own (radar) view of the situation is now totally confused as it takes some time for the relative motion 'video' to settle down after each and every course and/or speed change. IMO this is why in fog a dedicated radar operator, and I prefer that to be at the chart table, is much better than a committee operating around the wheel pedestal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. That's why I suggested using a stabilised mode for the radar. It makes the picture much easier to understand.

No one has suggested using MARPA. Either that or AIS could give you a better idea of what the other vessel is doing.
 
I think the maximum accurate operating distance of my radar is 12miles, that'll do! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
...and that is why I suggested just loosing some speed/hove too. If you are preoccupied watching the closing target and then make a dramatic course change, have you put yourself into greater danger of another, yet unseen ship?
 
"The vessel has remained at a constant bearing on the radar, so its course can be precisely understood..."

That is not right at all. One can precisely understand only it's relative bearing. Without a vector calculation many different tracks of the ship are possible. Surely that is the whole dilemma. If one had done the vectors all the uncertainty would be gone.
 
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