Ye olde gas compression joint thread

Thanks nigelmercier, I didn't clock that at BES, well that puts my mind at rest re 5/16" and 8mm! Copper olives are on their way also.

Interesting that the guide here suggests keeping the compression joints dry... http://www.thomson-caravans.co.uk/advice/diyprojects/gascompressionfitting.htm

And thanks emandvee44 for the post - useful, he used some sort of jointing stuff too like BERT T suggests. I think I'll try the joints dry first, if my bubble tester doesn't bubble, then I'll leave well alone.
 
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MagicalArmchair said:
Thanks nigelmercier, I didn't clock that at BES, well that puts my mind at rest re 5/16" and 8mm! Copper olives are on their way also. Interesting that the guide here suggests keeping the compression joints dry...
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My father-in-law was a plumber, and he always used a thin smear of Boss White on compression joints; both the olive and the thread. This gave lubrication, sealed the threads in case the olive failed, and locked the joint against vibration.

There are now better products available, especially for gas. I used a liquid form of PTFE made by Loctite, I think it was 572 http://www.henkel.co.uk/loctite-408...8017&msdsLanguage=EN_GB&selectedTab=technical
 
Carry PTFE & Calortite onboard for emergency leak repairing, eg for after having to disassemble the cooker because bits of PTFE (other types of debris are available) have gummed up the works. Also carry molybdenum bisulphide grease for the valves.

Don't use sealants on the assembly of compression fittings unless you are more than three hours away from a Fray Bentos Pie; Fix such fittings on your return to port or after the chandlery re-opens.

Mismatched fittings will be more prone to leaks caused by engine vibrations.

Unsupported pipe runs will exacerbate this.

I also keep a long length of gas hose & hose clips on board for emergency repairs.

Stop-cocks should be immediately before each appliance so you can isolate it quickly in the event of a fault. Also allowing you to use the rest of the system if something has gone south.

Auto shut-off regulators are great. They will kill the supply in the event of a major leak, such as a fractured pipe. I don't know if they are still available or if all regulators are made that way nowadays - It's nearly thirty years since I worked 'on the gas!'
 
nigelmercier said:
There are now better products available, especially for gas. I used a liquid form of PTFE made by Loctite, I think it was 572 http://www.henkel.co.uk/loctite-408...8017&msdsLanguage=EN_GB&selectedTab=technical
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Liquid PTFE is superb stuff on most joints. (although my personal choice is to use no sealant on a gas fitting) Last year one of the O-rings on my Jabsco domestic water pump failed, many years old and had succumbed to compression set. In the absence of any other remedy I applied liquid PTFE, which fixed it.

I was introduced to liquid PTFE by my son Owen, who used it extensively in his aircon and refrigeration business in Mallorca, where he mostly dealt with super-yachts. Following the usual occasional leakage problems encountered when using a wide variety of other sealants he told me that having converted to it he never had another leak.
 
I'll get some of that liquid ptfe and carry it on board as a last resort, and I'll move the valves close to the appliance as oppose to close to the gas as below.

iJFGflJl.png


Can anyone recommend a gas alarm with automatic shut off? I would prefer not to spend mega dosh if I can avoid it - I am thinking I would prefer to fit one of these (I'm a big fan of Nasas stuff):

http://www.seamarknunn.com/acatalog/nasa-marine-gas-detector-8069.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwru6oBRDDp4jRj4bL_xASJADJ2obyWfRrK-qeofj9CRUJggSLWrz-kCxSkO4mQpoPRn2UKxoCvIrw_wcB#.VRutxvnF81I

Okay, so not auto shut off, however, once I am done using the gas, I tend to switch it off anyway - certainly if I am leaving the boat. If the gas alarm does go off, then I can revert to mark 1 auto switch off, called my fat fingers!
 
vyv_cox said:
Liquid PTFE is superb stuff on most joints. (although my personal choice is to use no sealant on a gas fitting) Last year one of the O-rings on my Jabsco domestic water pump failed, many years old and had succumbed to compression set. In the absence of any other remedy I applied liquid PTFE, which fixed it.

I was introduced to liquid PTFE by my son Owen, who used it extensively in his aircon and refrigeration business in Mallorca, where he mostly dealt with super-yachts. Following the usual occasional leakage problems encountered when using a wide variety of other sealants he told me that having converted to it he never had another leak.
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Since I started using the PTFE spray I seem to have ditched WD40 which I have used for 30 years. And yes, I know WD40 is not a good lubricant, even though it says on the tin that it is!

Richard
 
Just to throw some petrol on the flames, hamilton gas products replied to an email I sent to them yesterday with:

"Regarding your email below, the 8mm copper pipe can be used with 5/16 compression fittings although I would recommend wrapping every joint in PTFE sealing tape. I have linked this below:

http://gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/PTFE_Gas_Thread_Sealing_Tape.html

Any further questions then please feel free to contact me."

:)

Edit: OldBilbo - Good point, just had a response from Haven, they will be happy for me to carry out the work so long as its signed off by a Corgi chap... now to find a Corgi chap...
 
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When working on gas and mains electrical systems at home we are required by law to employ professionals. This is to prevent accidents and death caused by ignorance.
Why is it when the same work is necessary on a boat (or caravan) that just because there is no law to protect the ignorant and stupid that people risk serious accidents and possible death to themselves and/or their crew by trying to do the work themselves instead of employing professionals just to save a few quid.
By virtue of people needing to ask how to do certain tasks it is obvious to me that they should be getting a professional to do the work. Added to which they are asking the advise of people (on a forum such as this one) who may have no relevant qualifications and may give misleading advise or even be quessing of the correct solution.
It never ceases to amaze me the lack of common sense shown.
For the safety of yourself and others please use a professional who knows what he/she is doing and will provide a safety certificate when the work is complete.
 
SAPurdie said:
..... Auto shut-off regulators are great. They will kill the supply in the event of a major leak, such as a fractured pipe. I don't know if they are still available or if all regulators are made that way nowadays - It's nearly thirty years since I worked 'on the gas!'
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Cleese Valve, not a regulator but it does shut off on loss of pressure and excess flow http://gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Clesse_Gas_Automatic_Cut_off_Valve.html

Quick question, which I hope the OP does not mind, but it is relevant to gas fittings. When transiting bulkheads or any other type of penetration, that is not part of the gas locker, is it OK to pass the copper pipe straight through a drilled hole, or other convenient opening, but inside a short length of clear plastic sleeve for protection/inspection, or should all transits be via bulkhead fittings (compression).
 
A nice rant theoldsalt, here here, and frankly I expected one before now, and you do make a good point... However, I like to touch every system on my boat, as unlike at home, if something goes wrong at sea, I can't call british gas, I have to be able to sort it out myself. I also like understanding the risks - my father was a shipwright (Rowan Yacht Services) and could point out plenty of occasions where a 'professional' and certified person has bodged a job and actually caused risks - blindly trusting someone based on recommendation or 'Google' is not something I am actually that comfortable with.

Collective knowledge is a great thing, and the posts made by the members here are valuable, I am grateful to them, and hold plenty of wisdom - and yes, I'm sure there are some daft comments in here too, but with so many clever, experienced people on a forum, this is self regulating. That is what community is.

That said, I will be getting the work signed off by someone experienced and certified for the insurance anyhew. For heavens sake, lets not have such low expectations of our own competence and intelligence - this IS practical boat owner after all. I sail with my family, so safety is paramount importance, I do not take it lightly to 'save a few quid' - hence investing in bubble testers, remote gas alarms and CO alarms.

Edit: And thanks OldBoot, yup, I have ordered one of these likely fellows to go through the bulkhead: http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/bulkhead-pipe-compression-couplings
 
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theoldsalt said:
When working on gas and mains electrical systems at home we are required by law to employ professionals.
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Actually, you're not.

Although it is of some benefit that the general public believe it to be the case, as it undoubtedly discourages some incompetent people from having a go.

In the case of gas, the legal requirement is that whoever does the work is competent. They are only required to be formally qualified and Gas Safe registered if doing the work for somebody else.

For domestic electricity it's a little more complex and has changed a bit over recent years (generally in the more permissive direction), but not everything is notifiable under Part P and there is still a route for legal DIY for things that are.

Pete
 
MagicalArmchair said:
just had a response from Haven, they will be happy for me to carry out the work so long as its signed off by a Corgi chap
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Did they say Corgi, or is that your summary? Bit worrying if the former, since CORGI stopped being the legal register of qualified installers six years ago...

Pete
 
Just a quick update, spoke to Mike of http://www.sestina-services.co.uk/ , and what a cracking chap he is. Suggested I put a gas test point (http://www.asap-supplies.com/search/test/gas-line-testing-point-union-307920) on so he can quickly test the whole system, so I shall do that too, he also suggested I move to butane from propane (camping gaz) as propane stops working at around -2 degrees C (sort of when you want your heating to work the most) and is about two thirds the cost! Another job then of augmenting my stainless gas locker if I go that way... ho hum...
 
MagicalArmchair said:
Just a quick update, spoke to Mike of http://www.sestina-services.co.uk/, and what a cracking chap he is. Suggested I put a gas test point (http://www.asap-supplies.com/search/test/gas-line-testing-point-union-307920) on so he can quickly test the whole system, so I shall do that too, he also suggested I move to butane from propane (camping gaz) as propane stops working at around -2 degrees C (sort of when you want your heating to work the most) and is about two thirds the cost! Another job then of augmenting my stainless gas locker if I go that way... ho hum...
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you have propane & butane Rs about face,Chap
CG is Butane
Calor red bottles are Propane
 
MagicalArmchair said:
Just a quick update, spoke to Mike of http://www.sestina-services.co.uk/ , and what a cracking chap he is. Suggested I put a gas test point (http://www.asap-supplies.com/search/test/gas-line-testing-point-union-307920) on so he can quickly test the whole system, so I shall do that too, he also suggested I move to butane from propane (camping gaz) as propane stops working at around -2 degrees C (sort of when you want your heating to work the most) and is about two thirds the cost! Another job then of augmenting my stainless gas locker if I go that way... ho hum...
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Wrong way round.

Butane becomes unusable below about 2C ( it boils at -1C)

Propane is usable down to temps below any that you will encounter ( Boiling point is -42C)
 
MagicalArmchair said:
Gads, yes, that's what Haven said :) - I will correct them... thanks prv.

"Hi Mark

I confirm if signed off by a Corgi gas fitter this will be acceptable

Regards"

I've contacted a chap mentioned earlier in this thread at http://www.sestina-services.co.uk/ to ask if they would check over any works I carry out for Haven (and my own peace of mind)
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It may be acceptable to Haven but it will probably be illegal for someone who is not Gas Safe Registered and authorized to work on LPG systems on boats, CORGI registered or not, to inspect and sign this off


Mike Wilczynski from Sestina is however Gas safe Registered and has the appropriate additional qualifications to work on LPG systems on boats
 
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To put to sea without "ANY KNOWLEDGE" of your boats systems is just simply BAD seamanship.

I will admit some of my present Installation knowledge may well be out of date as I retired 20+ years ago but I do have past qualifications and certificates as long as my arms from industrial and merchant navy days that have now expired.
If I was to install a new system on my boat I would want to make sure I was fully up to date of of the present day regulations before starting any work.
Peeps on boats should have a reasonable knowledge of all the systems on their boat so as to be able to attend to them.
Installation is something quite different to simple servicing of a well installed system.
Having said that there is nothing stopping you from installing your own systems as long as you are competent to do so and able to work to a satisfactory level for the work to pass all the requirements of present day regulations.
Then if you wish there is nothing stopping you from having it passed off by a gas safe registered inspector.
As long as the boat is not for hire or reward.
If it is for hire or reward then it will require a qualified person to do the installation whom may well be someone who has passed all the class room exams but never had the benefit of a proper practical time served apprentice ship who will do the work and be quite happy to sign it off at completion.
It will still need to have a fully certified inspection by a gas safe registered inspector.
 
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