Yarmouth Harbour IOW

[glashen]

2. The majority of visitors when entering the harbour say "Can I go on the walk-ashore please?"

Personally, I would much rather look at a harbour with no pontoons and lots of boats anchored or on buoys, like Braye, but if I owned a harbour or a nearby wine-bar I would want the place jammed with as many boats as possible, most of them of the motor-boat kind as well! Statistically, it is known in Yarmouth that motor boaters typically carry more people per boat and spend more in the town.

Well I'm prepared to bow your knowledge, but I know of a significant minority of small yacht owners who do not want to use the walk on facilities but prefer the small boat pontoon. Cost is a factor but I would be surprised if the increased revenue would cover the costs which must be very significant in anything but the long term. Regarding the business's will it really make much overall difference to them, the harbour is full on any good weekend in the summer, during the week there is often space on the walk on pontoon, correct me if I'm wrong about that. The benefit judging by your post is that there will be a lot more motor boats, the harbour will be very different in character and some of us will mourn the change.

I'm still finding it a bit difficult to see the benefits from the Harbour Commisioners, the small yacht or the Yarmouth business's POV.

 

[Sans Bateau]

The walk ashore pontoons will attract those boaters who didnt like the piles. It will bring in more of the type who will spend the money in the town, if they can get ashore easily, the wives will love it. I cant blame the folk. Times change and harbours with them.

As it is at the moment, many weekends in the season, you cant get into Yarmouth! If you do manage to get in you have to turn up to eat in a pub at about 6PM. You just cant get any more in, its not as though its lacking in popularity, is it?

To add walk ashore pontoons can only mean a reduced number of berths, add 12 mters of berth, take out one boat, and if everyone wants a finger pontoon, then there will be less and less room.

No, leave it as it is, if the customers dont buy into the product, then do something, but I doubt any of us will see the day when Yarmouth is not the destination of choice for the Hamble charter boat.

 

[DJE]

....but I know of a significant minority of small yacht owners who do not want to use the walk on facilities but prefer the small boat pontoon.

That includes me. The 30 foot pontoon up at the quiet end of the harbour is our usual haunt and it's usually quite sociable up there too. I'm a bit worried about the new marina isles laid out across the tide. I can see those catching a few people out.

 

[Twister_Ken]

If it becomes wall-to-wall white plastic I, for one, will no longer bother going in there.

 

[Fire99]

The number of moorings isn't going to change and the harbour is mostly always full at peak times so I'm guessing the assumption is that it will attract more 'Big White Boats' who will potentially spend more money at Yarmouth.

I for one am at the other end of the spectrum where if my mooring is cheaper, i'll have more disposable money to spend in the town.

Also Charm and Character often go overlooked as it doesn't really calculate on a spreadsheet.
My point being that if I have the choice of visiting a 'Plastic Fantastic' marina or somewhere with a bit of charm and diversity, i'll go for the diversity every time.
So the 'improved facilities' will actually have a negetive effect on my spending at the site.

Everyone wants the Yarmouth to thrive and the locals to make a good living. But surely since the place is already rammed to the rafters, that isn't an issue? 300 boats is still 300 boats or are you wanting to price out the smaller, less plastic-fantastic, boats and turn the place into the retreat of the rich.

Eliteism is not something I would want to be promoted.

 

[Twister_Ken]

And those stalwarts of Yarmouth Harbour, the water taxi boys, will be seriously out of pocket.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

If it becomes wall-to-wall white plastic I, for one, will no longer bother going in there.

ditto.

the little bit of charm that still exists in Yarmouth harbour can usually be found by visitors mid-week, but only local, those in retirement or on holiday can experience that.

It will be a great pity to see the marina-like development take place.

The great problem is there are far too many big boats trying to go to quaint places like Yarmouth, that money talks and places change.
I wonder how much less 'money' will visit places like Yarmouth when the recession really starts to bite?

I have posted my snailmail letter today in support of compromise, which is what I think Yarmouth mostly stands for at the moment.

 

[glashen]

And those stalwarts of Yarmouth Harbour, the water taxi boys, will be seriously out of pocket.

I think it's reasonable to assume they are opposed. But from the sound of it the Berthing masters will be out of a job as well, just call up on the VHF and be allocated a berth, that will be fun a Saturday afternoon, especially since quite a lot of Solent sailors don't know you call a marina on a working channel not 16.

 

[doris]

Inner Harbour Reconfiguration Proposals
Looking at the proposals I am amazed that such a huge modification is thought good. When Yarmouth gets a reputation for damaged boats and difficult mooring the revenue could fall off a cliff.
Many of the new berths will very difficult to moor onto when a strong tide is running, especially with a small crew which a frequent case in Yarmouth. Add a strong wind and people will go elsewhere.The lack of any turning space above the fuel pontoon has the potential to cause chaos in anything other than very benign conditions is enormous.
I seems ridiculous that there is no way to simply connect the current outer pontoon to the shore, thereby making it walk-ashore. Problem sorted at half the price and many happy customers.

Are there some lobbyists here with vested interests? Yes I have no problem moving things forward but I can't see how this plan has been thought through. The pontoons in Weymouth are a perfect example of how things can be improved cheaply and very constructively.

 

[glashen]

Inner Harbour Reconfiguration Proposals
Looking at the proposals I am amazed that such a huge modification is thought good. When Yarmouth gets a reputation for damaged boats and difficult mooring the revenue could fall off a cliff.
Many of the new berths will very difficult to moor onto when a strong tide is running, especially with a small crew which a frequent case in Yarmouth. Add a strong wind and people will go elsewhere.The lack of any turning space above the fuel pontoon has the potential to cause chaos in anything other than very benign conditions is enormous.
I seems ridiculous that there is no way to simply connect the current outer pontoon to the shore, thereby making it walk-ashore. Problem sorted at half the price and many happy customers.

Are there some lobbyists here with vested interests? Yes I have no problem moving things forward but I can't see how this plan has been thought through. The pontoons in Weymouth are a perfect example of how things can be improved cheaply and very constructively.

Having had a good look through the proposals and reasons I too am puzzled, an extension to existing walk ashore facilities could be achieved without the total redesign envisaged for far less cost. Further this sort of development would meet the desires of most of those surveyed (Incidentally it would be interesting to know if the visitors were surveyed ashore or on the floating pontoons: quite an opportunity to slant the result there.) Since not everybody surveyed wanted this by any means.

 

[Ubergeekian]

(Quoted) Yarmouth Harbour has an enormous following; it is most yachtsmens' "favourite port of call".

And I thought the magazines were Solent centric. Is the Royal Institute of Navigation aware that there are yachts - quite a lot of yachts, in fact - which live an Awful Long Way from Yarmouth?

That said. it looks like a nice place and I hope a suitable solution can be found. Has the RYA taken a position on this?

 

[l'escargot]

... just call up on the VHF and be allocated a berth, that will be fun a Saturday afternoon, especially since quite a lot of Solent sailors don't know you call a marina on a working channel not 16.

They seem to manage though, the highest concentration of marinas in the UK isn't it? And they fill up every weekend in the summer and them some. Looks like most people know what to do.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Inner Harbour Reconfiguration Proposals
Looking at the proposals I am amazed that such a huge modification is thought good. When Yarmouth gets a reputation for damaged boats and difficult mooring the revenue could fall off a cliff.
Many of the new berths will very difficult to moor onto when a strong tide is running, especially with a small crew which a frequent case in Yarmouth. Add a strong wind and people will go elsewhere.The lack of any turning space above the fuel pontoon has the potential to cause chaos in anything other than very benign conditions is enormous.
I seems ridiculous that there is no way to simply connect the current outer pontoon to the shore, thereby making it walk-ashore. Problem sorted at half the price and many happy customers.

Are there some lobbyists here with vested interests? Yes I have no problem moving things forward but I can't see how this plan has been thought through. The pontoons in Weymouth are a perfect example of how things can be improved cheaply and very constructively.

write and tell em Doris!

 

[oldfatgit]

Last time we went there, only once this year, we were put alongside a large, slab-sided motor cruiser. The skipper and his crew were very pleasant, unconcerned company. They helped us tie up and politely asked when we were off the next day. Subsequently we had another sailing boat outside us who we helped and I informed them of our departure, about 0730 to ensure that we were past Cowes before the tide turned there, nodds and acceptance. The next boat (a Bavaria) came alongside well and the large family set about making secure. The skipper (dad) declined any help they got on with family things. We didn't go ashore and they did crossing the 3 boats inside including us without much in the way of human interaction.

The following day, at 0800 they went ashore to shower, and were gone a long time. On return dad expressed surprise that we wanted to leave so soon and made a big deal of helping us out by casting off to enable it.

Next time I will make sure that I inform dad and his ilk rather than expect intelligent interest. As it happeds we were late and our neice missed her train as a result. Dad was going the same way and expressed surprise that we were not willing to fight a foul tide in West Solent on a spring tide.

Anyway, I will be more accepting of motor boat users and a little more suspicious of dad types. As for the proposed changes, the delight of Yarmouth is the slightly chaotic way it is, with berthing masters, busy traffic and all types of boat and sailor and not a few fishermen. If the changes loose that then, I suppose, they could be reversed but a sterile marina feel would be a sad development. I will find out, but just, at this time, wonder what it is that they are attempting to achieve for the harbour and town?

 

[Twister_Ken]

In rather hackneyed marketing terms, Yarmouth has (for the Solent) a unique selling proposition. It's the only 'proper' harbour left. And that is a very large part of its appeal. Throw away that USP and it loses its differentiator, just another yacht park. Going to Yarmouth will no longer be special; might as well go to Lymington, or Cowes or the Hamble. A bloody stupid idea, in my view.

 

[doris]

write and tell em Doris!

What I posted here was sent to the harbour commissioners first. Hopefully plenty of folks will do the same.
It will be a pig to berth a Twister with a cross tide!!

 

[Sans Bateau]

In rather hackneyed marketing terms, Yarmouth has (for the Solent) a unique selling proposition. It's the only 'proper' harbour left. And that is a very large part of its appeal. Throw away that USP and it loses its differentiator, just another yacht park. Going to Yarmouth will no longer be special; might as well go to Lymington, or Cowes or the Hamble. A bloody stupid idea, in my view.

On the contrary TK, with its trot moorings for visitors, Lymington is slowly growing in its appeal in my mind.

 

[l'escargot]

Google Earth shows Yarmouth about 5 years or so ago and predates the current walkashores, so there were still more pile berths than there are now:

Where were all these sailors who love mooring on piles on the day the photo was taken? Looks very much to me as if the piles are predominently motor boats and the vast majority of sailing boats are on the pontoons.

 

[Robin]

Google Earth shows Yarmouth about 5 years or so ago and predates the current walkashores, so there were still more pile berths than there are now:



Where were all these sailors who love mooring on piles on the day the photo was taken? Looks very much to me as if the piles are predominently motor boats and the vast majority of sailing boats are on the pontoons.

When I say 'piles' I and I suspect others, use the term loosely to differentiate them from the walkashore berths, most of the 'piles' have (non-walkashore)pontoons on them and as you know have done so for some time.

There are two factors with the proposed plan. First is that the costs of all overnight moorings will rise dramatically to full marina rates. Second is that mooring to the new pontoons with the strong tides that flow at times and the wind combined with a reduced area to manoeuvre and no harbour staff around to help is going to make life very difficult.

Picture this scenario, just come in from the west, maybe after a rough Channel crossing in strong SW wind and spring tides. Now have to radio ahead (signal blocked by high ground until well into Needles Channel) to get a berth allocated (whilst still trying to stow sails, fit fenders and lines etc), given a berth number but hey where the heck is it? Go in and find there are several other boats all looking to see where their allocated berth is. Find berth but hell it is very tight to get to, the wind is blowing hard off the pontoon and the tide is carrying you into it rather faster than you had expected. Oh sh!t, now that guy who came in behind you is right up your tail and you want to go hard astern to abort and try again...


Ta muchly, you can keep it, I'll save the money to spend on a nice fresh lobster in Lymington.

Edited to add PS. The mobos on the piles as you mention in the Google pic are on the private piles so presumably are local boats whereas the yachts are on the visitor pontoons.

 

[l'escargot]

Comments such as :

"...It was lost when they put the first pontoons in...."

"...enjoyment of practising how to tie up to piles..."

"...while piles are just a hassle...."

would suggest that people are differentiating between piles and pontoons.

The difficulties with the pontoons will not be new, just different from the existing ones - it is already difficult using any berth in Yarmouth with a tide running.

As for your scenario, I would pick up a buoy outside, the harbour would already be full and problematic for finding a berth under the current layout.

The four deep piles top centre and five deep piles right of centre were always visitor berths.

I'm with you on Lymington though, certainly my "favourite port of call", practically bought my daughter up there. But.....on the Town Quay, can't be arsed with messing about with the buoys. Now if they were to start looking at repositioning the commercial boats there so they could put in walkashore pontoons, that would be an improvement. Now where is that email address for Lymington Harbour Commissioners...........?