Yanmar engine owners-be aware.

[mickywillis]

This notice was emailed to the Commodore of our club, via the Legend Owners Association.

Only thing I find curious is the date which the email was distributed to the dealers on??
Perhaps any official Yanmar technicians on the board may care to comment?

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support representative.

 

[jwilson]

This notice was emailed to the Commodore of our club, via the Legend Owners Association.

Only thing I find curious is the date which the email was distributed to the dealers on??
Perhaps any official Yanmar technicians on the board may care to comment?

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support representative.

I can't remember if it was in the Jeanneau manual or the Yanmar manual, but I definitely have seen it written that the 3YM engine should be put into reverse when engine stopped and sailing.

 

[vyv_cox]

My 3GM30 is about 10 years old and I always put it in reverse when sailing. The problem comes when trying to put it back into neutral before re-starting, as something resists movement of the lever. It would take a very strong pull to overcome this, very probably doing some damage in the gearbox. I never bother, just start it in reverse and then move it into forward, which takes the normal amount of effort.

 

[l'escargot]

I would have thought that it would be dependant on the gearbox and whether it was manual or hydraulic more than the make of engine.

 

[jfkal]

Reverse

Strange I never had that problem going back from reverse to neutral. May depend on the gearbox though. I'd rather expect damage to the starter assembly over time starting the engine with the gear in reverse as it is not designed for the extra load.

 

[jfkal]

Yanmar

They dont really explain why, do they. I think its just a cover my a...... notice (just in case) rather than anything substantial.
I have done that with my old engine for donkey years without ill effect until I got a new engine and a folding prop.

This notice was emailed to the Commodore of our club, via the Legend Owners Association.

Only thing I find curious is the date which the email was distributed to the dealers on??
Perhaps any official Yanmar technicians on the board may care to comment?

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support representative.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I always put engine in gear when sailing. Supposed decrease in drag and definite decrease in whining. I'm not bothered about the warrantee as it is now expired and: how would they know anyway.

 

[Marsupial]

My Jenneau manual (2003) does contradict my Yanmar manual (2003). I always put my engine to ahead when sailing to stop the prop rotating and started it again before trying to move the lever to neutral, the force to move the lever while sailing was high enough to suggest that damage would ocour to something if I continued to tug. Now I have a folding prop I still need to engage a gear to stop the prop from turning but when it stops it folds and there is no resistance to shifting back into neutral. I have no expereience of the Yanmar gearbox in bits but am very wary of gearboxes turning with the engine off as (In my experience with trucks and cars) there can be problems with lubrication, quite apart from the drag under sail argument.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I have before my very eyes virgin copies of the 3YM20 and SD20 operation manuals. The engine manual says nothing on this topic, but the sail drive manual states categorically "NOTICE: When sailing set the remote control lever in neutral. Not doing so WILL intoduce slippage and void your warranty."

Now, you wouldn't want slippage, surely?

 

[Blueboatman]

Ken. You have a sail drive ? I am impressed.

Is this some devilishly cunning new way to make a longkeeler pirouette like a ballet wotsit ?

 

[vyv_cox]

My Jenneau manual (2003) does contradict my Yanmar manual (2003). I always put my engine to ahead when sailing to stop the prop rotating and started it again before trying to move the lever to neutral, the force to move the lever while sailing was high enough to suggest that damage would ocour to something if I continued to tug. Now I have a folding prop I still need to engage a gear to stop the prop from turning but when it stops it folds and there is no resistance to shifting back into neutral. I have no expereience of the Yanmar gearbox in bits but am very wary of gearboxes turning with the engine off as (In my experience with trucks and cars) there can be problems with lubrication, quite apart from the drag under sail argument.

It seems there are subtle differences between gearboxes fitted by Yanmar. Putting my gearbox into forward has absolutely no effect on prop rotation, it just carries on turning. Only reverse will stop it.

 

[vyv_cox]

I'd rather expect damage to the starter assembly over time starting the engine with the gear in reverse as it is not designed for the extra load.

I suggest the load on the starter on a cold day, perhaps at the beginning of the season, is considerably more than it sees starting a warm engine, whether it is in gear or not. At starter motor revs the difference must be negligible anyway, particularly with my feathering prop.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Ken. You have a sail drive ? I am impressed.

Is this some devilishly cunning new way to make a longkeeler pirouette like a ballet wotsit ?

I've got the manuals.

Other people read Dan Brown or Jeffery Archer or (God forbid) Clare Frances.

 

[V1701]

I always put engine in gear when sailing. Supposed decrease in drag and definite decrease in whining. I'm not bothered about the warrantee as it is now expired and: how would they know anyway.

Wouldn't there be less drag if the prop was just allowed to do it's own thing (in neutral)? I have a 20 year old 2GM20, and now puzzled about what I should do...

 

[PeterR]

This advice is not unique to Yamaha. Volvo instructions for D1/D2 series engines state that when under sail with the engine switched off the control lever should be left in neutral when using a fixed blade prop and left in reverse when using a folding prop.

 

[vyv_cox]

Wouldn't there be less drag if the prop was just allowed to do it's own thing (in neutral)? I have a 20 year old 2GM20, and now puzzled about what I should do...

You are correct, it has now been shown that the drag of a fixed-type propeller is considerably less when it rotates freely than when locked in gear. However, my Autoprop continues to rotate if the gear is left in neutral, which is why I lock it in reverse.

 

[V1701]

You are correct, it has now been shown that the drag of a fixed-type propeller is considerably less when it rotates freely than when locked in gear. However, my Autoprop continues to rotate if the gear is left in neutral, which is why I lock it in reverse.

Thanks for that, I will remain in neutral and let my fixed prop spin...

 

[Robin]

You are correct, it has now been shown that the drag of a fixed-type propeller is considerably less when it rotates freely than when locked in gear. However, my Autoprop continues to rotate if the gear is left in neutral, which is why I lock it in reverse.

Brunton instructions for our 3 bladed Autoprop said to shut the engine off whilst still in forward gear, which is what we did. Our engine was a Yanmar 44hp 4JHE and it never 'stuck' in gear and we always engaged neutral before restarting.

We fitted a new engine to the boat before that, a Volvo MD22l 50hp which in Volvo format came with a Volvo gearbox, whereas in Perkins colours it had a Hurth gearbox. The Volvo gearbox always froze in gear when we put it in reverse to stop shaft spin, but it was easily cleared with a quick 'blip' of the starter first, then engage neutral, then start the engine. This was with a fixed 3 bladed prop.

I would and did always lock the shaft in gear with a fixed prop when under sail, a) because I still believe there is less drag, especially so if the shaft is stopped with the prop lined up with any skeg. b) because some gearboxes (like on the Volvo MD22l) require cooling water which only works with the engine running c) some gearboxes require oil always to be circulating when the shaft is turning d) because the shaft seal and cutlass bearings are wearing when they need not be e) because the constant rumble from the shaft turning drives me nuts and sailing should be peaceful. f) because the rotating prop tends to make the rudder vibrate under sail.

 

[Heckler]

You are correct, it has now been shown that the drag of a fixed-type propeller is considerably less when it rotates freely than when locked in gear. However, my Autoprop continues to rotate if the gear is left in neutral, which is why I lock it in reverse.

Vyv
a few years ago when I got my previous Bene (VP 2030 b with an MS2 gearbox?) and I first came across the shaft spinning, I phoned VP up. If you perservere you can get past the (where are you, I will find out your nearest dealer?) receptionist and you will end up talking to Lyn, their techy man. His words were to me, "We used to advise people to put in reverse to stop the shaft spinning, BUT they then used to have the prob of trying to get it back to neutral to restart the engine. We advised to "flick" the starter in gear to free the box BUT people were confused and so now we advise to leave in neutral"
So that was from the horses mouth as far as VP were concerned!
Stu

 

[Plevier]

Vyv
a few years ago when I got my previous Bene (VP 2030 b with an MS2 gearbox?) and I first came across the shaft spinning, I phoned VP up. If you perservere you can get past the (where are you, I will find out your nearest dealer?) receptionist and you will end up talking to Lyn, their techy man. His words were to me, "We used to advise people to put in reverse to stop the shaft spinning, BUT they then used to have the prob of trying to get it back to neutral to restart the engine. We advised to "flick" the starter in gear to free the box BUT people were confused and so now we advise to leave in neutral"
So that was from the horses mouth as far as VP were concerned!
Stu

That's really useful to know, thanks.
I can't bear to leave my 2002 in neutral as per instructions (it rumbles) and I have to leave it in gear on the mooring too otherwise it turns with the current and makes a bit of water through the shaft seal, but it can be sticky to get back to neutral. Haven't tried blip of starter - will do next time.