Yanmar 1GM10 Starter hesitation

Ubergeekian

Ubergeekian

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 Jun 2004
Messages
9,904
Location
Me: Castle Douglas, SW Scotland. Boats: Kirkcudbri
www.drmegaphone.com
Ever since I've had Jumblie the engine has been a bit erratic in starting. Sometimes first press of the button, sometimes two, or three, or four, or five presses before it turns over. Windjammer Marine in Milford Haven took the starter motor to a local expert who gave it a stern talking too. Things seemed a wee bit better, maybe, but soon went back to the hesitation. Each push of the button brought a "click" from the starter, so the solenoid operating circuit seemed OK, and since the engine spun well when it did spin the supply seemed OK too.

So I have just fitted a replacement starter motor from eBay. Second hand, original Hitachi, looks almost brand new. And ... it works fine, but needed two presses of the button to get things going the first couple of times.

Is this normal Yanmar behaviour, or should I be hunting through the system a bit more. When the engine does turn it starts instantly.
 
My Yanmar 3GM does the same and has done for several years. I haven't investigated it yet, waiting until it becomes a real problem as the starter would be very difficult to get off on my boat.

When I used to mess about a lot with VWs and Bosch starter motors I often had the same problem. With these pre-engaged starters the solenoid throws the rotor forward, then electric contact is made via a crude 'switch' simply two copper terminals and a flat bar across them. Over time the electrical contacts become pitted and tarnished. I used to dress them up from time to time with a fine file, giving me another year or so.
 
vyv_cox said:
My Yanmar 3GM does the same and has done for several years. I haven't investigated it yet, waiting until it becomes a real problem as the starter would be very difficult to get off on my boat.

When I used to mess about a lot with VWs and Bosch starter motors I often had the same problem. With these pre-engaged starters the solenoid throws the rotor forward, then electric contact is made via a crude 'switch' simply two copper terminals and a flat bar across them. Over time the electrical contacts become pitted and tarnished. I used to dress them up from time to time with a fine file, giving me another year or so.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I had similar problems with a VW Camper Van starter, which resisted repeated reconditionings. I think the frame was distorted, or distorting in heat, as a wholly new starter solved that problem. Same with a Reliant trike - a smear of copperslip on the solenoid slug solved that for good. Sod's law may have ensured that I replaced a starter with one showing the same problems.
 
1GM10 starting

I am not sure if this is relevant .............. but on the 3YM there is a relay prior to the starter motor and the high current relay. It is a small round black jobby with four wires going to it and it is mounted on the back of the motor ('gearbox' end). I have had problems four about six months with intermittent not starting on the first turn of the key but would start on the second turn!!!! By chance I was talking to a Sunsail mechanic whilst on holiday and he told me about this "additional" relay; it is shown on the schematic but it is not clear that it does not form part of the starter motor assembly. Anyway, I changed this and have had no problems since ..... about three weeks of holidays, so lots of starting and stopping. He also told me that this relay can stick closed and cause the starter motor to burn-out!!!!! Apparently they have lost four starter motors like this on Beneteaus use for charter in Procida, Italy.

As I said, I am not sure if the 1GM has the same system but just in case I thought I would mention it.

Alan.
 
RE: Engine hard starting

FOLKS.
Any engine operated in diesel at electric starter you must be PRE-HAETING 5-10 second specially in first starting and winter time.
prior to start manually pump the fuel to priming, by using first class gasoline and hard starting observe the sound knocking the engine means battery loss, if battery is brand new the time to check your starter, but first try to check first the spark plug.
happy sailing.....;)
 
I have a similar 'problem', but I it doesn't bother me and I haven't persued tha matter. I have wondered if it is something to do with the engine coming to rest such that it doesn't have quite enough momentum to get through TDC under compression. probably not, I'm no serious mechanic... dirty solenoid contacts makes much more sense
 
Ubergeekian said:
Ever since I've had Jumblie the engine has been a bit erratic in starting. Sometimes first press of the button, sometimes two, or three, or four, or five presses before it turns over. Windjammer Marine in Milford Haven took the starter motor to a local expert who gave it a stern talking too. Things seemed a wee bit better, maybe, but soon went back to the hesitation. Each push of the button brought a "click" from the starter, so the solenoid operating circuit seemed OK, and since the engine spun well when it did spin the supply seemed OK too.

So I have just fitted a replacement starter motor from eBay. Second hand, original Hitachi, looks almost brand new. And ... it works fine, but needed two presses of the button to get things going the first couple of times.

Is this normal Yanmar behaviour, or should I be hunting through the system a bit more. When the engine does turn it starts instantly.
Click to expand...


It sounds more like a battery problem to me, just lacking the initial grunt to get it turning.
The initial load warms the battery, so it is able to deliver the necessary power for the next attempt.

If it happens to me I just lift the decompression lever and try again.

Alisdair
 
Had the same thing on and off for the 18 years I had my 1GM. It is electrical (obviously) and usually splitting the connecter in the loom and cleaning the contacts helps, as does undoing and re-tightening the negative on the bell housing. I suspect the switch button itself is not the best, but never bothered to try a different one.

Just learn to count to 5 before swearing at it - seems to work. Also helps if its predecessor was a Stuart Turner - you think you have gone to heaven early when you get a Yanmar.
 
Thanks all. It seems that I am not alone, and I won't worry about it too much. I think the button is OK, because I hear a good solid "click" from the starter (I was testing it with the engine cover off today) and the batteries were fully charged and sailed through a 250A discharge test earlier.

My guess, since it seems to be a common occurrence, is that the starter pinion is failing to mesh fully with the ring gear, and since that has to happen before the juice is turned on, the starter doesn't try to do anything until the pinion is engaged. Perhaps Yanmar were a little under-generous with the slopes machined into the front edge of the ring gear teeth: the ones which guide the starter pinion into engagement.

The first time this happened was the day I got the boat. December, 1am, tied to a pontoon outside Milford Marina locks, being bounced all over the place in F6 and 2 - 3 foot waves: when I pressed the button and got silence I damn near had a coronary ...
 
First post, so go easy on me...

My Yanmar YSE12 behaves in the same manner. On turning the ignition key I am initially met with silence or a feeble click from the starter solenoid. Further turns are eventually rewarded with the starter engaging and operating normally, as I mutter dark curses under my breath whilst trying to look like it's meant to do that.

The problem seems to be one of voltage drop in the ancient Yanmar wiring loom, as shorting the terminals on the starter solenoid causes the starter to engage and turn quite effectively. In addition to this, the starter pinion and ring gear teeth are almost square edged, and do not engage quite as readily as they would if the pinion teeth had a gentle lead in. (does that make sense?) Since the engine invariably stops in the same position, any damage to the ring gear is concentrated in the same location and may hamper the solenoid from sliding into engagement.

To fix the starting issues I intend fitting a relay to initialise the solenoid, so that the old wiring harness and ignition switch can cope. Also, I will dress the starter pinion and ring gear to ease the engagement. Think I'll also consider renewing the starter battery, as I suspect that too is past the first flush of youth.
 
Caol-ila said:
First post, so go easy on me...
Click to expand...

Welcome, friend.

In addition to this, the starter pinion and ring gear teeth are almost square edged, and do not engage quite as readily as they would if the pinion teeth had a gentle lead in. (does that make sense?)
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I suspect on my own. I had a look at the ring gear when the starter was out: it didn't look chewed up but there wasn't much lead in, as you put it. I like the idea of dressing it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top