Yachtmaster ocean requirements

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GHA

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I have an offshore passage in a couple of weeks and might dust off the sextant and use the trip as a qualifying passage for the yachtmaster ocean exam, with no outside help cos I'm skint :) questions...

  • How much paperwork is required? I was thinking of the sight calculations /plotting sheets and photos of the logbook - enough?
  • Can you just book an Examiner? Google didn't come up with much, I'm assuming I need to do the written at the same time.
  • How hard is it? I've a load of offshore passages so hopefully made most of the mistakes already and understand astro nav but need to put a load of hours in to get it hardwire into the brain a bit better so I don't need to think about every step of the way.
  • What will I forget to take? Sextant, astro almanac, reduction tables and plotting sheets.... and....

I mean, how hard can it be........... :)

Tia
 
GHA said:
I have an offshore passage in a couple of weeks and might dust off the sextant and use the trip as a qualifying passage for the yachtmaster ocean exam, with no outside help cos I'm skint :) questions...

  • How much paperwork is required? I was thinking of the sight calculations /plotting sheets and photos of the logbook - enough?
  • Can you just book an Examiner? Google didn't come up with much, I'm assuming I need to do the written at the same time.
  • How hard is it? I've a load of offshore passages so hopefully made most of the mistakes already and understand astro nav but need to put a load of hours in to get it hardwire into the brain a bit better so I don't need to think about every step of the way.
  • What will I forget to take? Sextant, astro almanac, reduction tables and plotting sheets.... and....

I mean, how hard can it be........... :)

Tia
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The course and exam pre-requirements are on the RYA website: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Yachtmasterocean.aspx

The sights you take don't have to be from your qualifying passage (at least mine weren't!)

Its not just about sights and sight reduction: you need to be have some knowledge of world weather systems and tropical storms etc as well as the planning and execution of ocean passages. (Victualling, watch keeping routines etc etc)

You don't have to photo the log. The examiner will soon find out if you are blagging it.

Its perfectly acceptable to use plotting sheets and aide memoires for the sight reduction bit. (In fact so long as you can talk through what you are doing and have done, it might persuade the examiner that you are a methodical and careful person. A lot of astro for a lot of people means being methodical!)
 
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john_morris_uk said:
The course and exam pre-requirements are on the RYA website: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Yachtmasterocean.aspx
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Been there already , ta

The sights you take don't have to be from your qualifying passage (at least mine weren't!)
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Handy to know, technically I'm only deckhand on this passage


Its not just about sights and sight reduction: you need to be have some knowledge of world weather systems and tropical storms etc as well as the planning and execution of ocean passages. (Victualling, watch keeping routines etc etc)
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Many happy hours have been spent in hot dusty markets hunting down the best tomatoes ("Shall we not bother with the goats head?" :) ) for weeks at sea so hopefully all that side shouldn't be too bad.
 
It is quite easy to get a few sun/run/sun noonday fixes with even the cheapest of sextant. A starsight is much more challenging as there is only a brief period after the stars appear before you lose the horizon. I never really got to grips with it. I'd be thinking about looking at some astronomy software for the area / dates I was going to be navigating and working out how to identify the principal stars ahead of the trip if I was going to try a starsight again. You don't need a starsight for the RYA but if you are out there it is nice to try and do it.
 
Don't forget this bit...

The records must include as a minimum: planning, reduction and plotting of a sun run meridian altitude sight and a compass check carried out using the bearing of the sun, moon, a star or planet.
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For me, that involved constructing a Pelorus, for the relevant boat's bulkhead compass did not have a shadow pin, and doing the simple calculation of the Sun's Amplitude ( true bearing at astronomical sunset/sunrise ) for my twice-daily compass check.

My examiner was well pleased with my lash-up/recycled Pelorus, checked simply that I understood it, then pulled his own out of a cupboard and spent the rest of our time comparing 'boys toys'.....


IMG_0117.jpg
 
It won't count if your only a deckhand, you need to be skipper or mate. But then you know that as you read the link above. It's not all about astro
 
SteveSarabande said:
It won't count if your only a deckhand, you need to be skipper or mate. But then you know that as you read the link above. It's not all about astro
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That's why Johns comment about not needing to be the same passage helps, I won't have to fib but can use another previous passage on my own boat as a qualifier. Probably about half a dozen would meet the milage requirements, but none with recorded sights.
 
BruceDanforth said:
It is quite easy to get a few sun/run/sun noonday fixes with even the cheapest of sextant. A starsight is much more challenging as there is only a brief period after the stars appear before you lose the horizon. I never really got to grips with it. I'd be thinking about looking at some astronomy software for the area / dates I was going to be navigating and working out how to identify the principal stars ahead of the trip if I was going to try a starsight again. You don't need a starsight for the RYA but if you are out there it is nice to try and do it.
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Selected Stars does it for you. Armed with a rough EP at the observation time, you can figure LHA Aries plus a couple either side, then look up whats on view.

Ive often drawn a rough sketch with big figures on a whiteboard. Ships head, relative azimuth of the stars plus their approx. altitudes. Takes practice to get more than 2, but can often be cut by a nice fat planet, or the Moon.

Theyre in much the same place for days on a long trip, its just mustering the enthusiasm to do it when your scrathcher calls.....
 
capnsensible said:
Selected Stars does it for you. Armed with a rough EP at the observation time, you can figure LHA Aries plus a couple either side, then look up whats on view.

Ive often drawn a rough sketch with big figures on a whiteboard. Ships head, relative azimuth of the stars plus their approx. altitudes. Takes practice to get more than 2, but can often be cut by a nice fat planet, or the Moon.

Theyre in much the same place for days on a long trip, its just mustering the enthusiasm to do it when your scrathcher calls.....
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I quite agree...

Having someone else with a hand bearing compass to point at the right bit of horizon helps. Quite often you can set the sextant to the predicted altitude and point it in the right direction and find the star that was barely visible to the naked eye. Having someone on hand to take notes also helps speed things up.

You don't NEED star sights for RYA Ocean, but thy are so easy and so accurate that they are a pleasure to do once you get the hang of the practicalities.

Olbilbo is absolutely right to remind you to provide an example of checking compass by sun etc.

I made a schoolboy error when I did mine for the exam which I will never make again! I checked against the setting sun over the transom and forgot that the 'S' curve for deviation was 180 degrees out... I subtracted 180 for the looking astern bit but forgot to add instead of subtract (or vice versa) as the boat was facing the opposite direction to when the deviation curve was measured and drawn.
 
capnsensible said:
Selected Stars does it for you. Armed with a rough EP at the observation time, you can figure LHA Aries plus a couple either side, then look up whats on view.

Ive often drawn a rough sketch with big figures on a whiteboard. Ships head, relative azimuth of the stars plus their approx. altitudes. Takes practice to get more than 2, but can often be cut by a nice fat planet, or the Moon.

Theyre in much the same place for days on a long trip, its just mustering the enthusiasm to do it when your scrathcher calls.....
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And with the wonders of tablets, despite enjoying a cheeky lunchtime pint I have pub249 voL1 to hand, looking at Navigational Stars, Right hand side "ordered by SHA" - is that what you use?
I've sort of got my head round it, but do need to do a load more work in this area.
Ta
 
GHA said:
... looking at Navigational Stars, Right hand side "ordered by SHA" - is that what you use?
...
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When I first tried to get star sights I found that it was much easier to take them at dawn rather than in the evening twilight. This is because in the evening the first few bright stars come out while one can still see the horizon, but one can't work out which ones they are from the constellations until it gets much darker, by which time it's too dark to see the horizon! In the morning one can start identifying them while it's still dark and then wait for the dawn to show the horizon.

However after a few days one gets to remember which is which, and now I have grown old and lazy and just pre-calculate from my EP the altitude of those very few stars which can easily be identified (usually the brightest which are visible at twilight and in a good azimuth to cross with the last or next sun sight) then set the sextant to this altitude and search the horizon in approximately the right direction. This is pretty fool-proof as it avoids the need to identify the star from the constellation and also avoids the need to bring it down to the horizon. Frequently it also allows one to take star-sights well before dark, which widens the time 'window'. This is quite useful if the weather isn't perfect.

For what it's worth, in northern temperate latitudes during high summer, I find that Arcturus and Capella are the most useful by far (and certainly sufficient for YMO purposes), and indeed iirc I have only ever used Arcturus, Capella, Deneb, Polaris, Regulus and Vega.
 
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john_morris_uk said:
The volume you need is 'Selected Stars'. It gives a list of suggested stars in the order that they should become visible for a given latitude etc. it goes out of date every few years so you need to buy a new edition every so often.
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I'm looking at this one, pub249 vol1 a selected stars (but epoch 2010)
http://www.amazon.com/PUB-Sight-Reduction-Tables-Navigation/dp/B002Y1EGNK
But as a free download.

On a practical level, do you go for a bright one first to get as much time as possible, or pick to try get the best cocked hat you can.
 
I was surprised in a way that less was made of the sights than the overall planning/preparation of the boat and crew, but that is what Ocean is all about, making a safe passage and knowing how to plan for every eventuality that you might come across. You have to know your astro but that is a small part of what you need to demonstrate.
 
GHA said:
And with the wonders of tablets, despite enjoying a cheeky lunchtime pint I have pub249 voL1 to hand, looking at Navigational Stars, Right hand side "ordered by SHA" - is that what you use?
I've sort of got my head round it, but do need to do a load more work in this area.
Ta
Click to expand...

Selected Stars lists, for each whole degree of Latitude, which stars will be in view for fixing at each whole LHA of Aries. Disregard you only ever need .... stars, that would only apply to one voyage at one time of year at a lat that hasn't changed much!

Tim Bartletts book (not expensive) has probably some of the best explanations. Worth taking along on your trip.

So, having made your plan from SS, you will get 6 most likely stars and the best 3 for a fix indicated by a small diamond shape.

Not quite Bobs yer uncle, however, because that's where Neptune will probably have put a cloud or two, so just get what you can! The ones to the east are often easier to get first as the darkness comes galloping after the sun.

A little tip that transformed my sights given to me by a well practised chap....... turn the sextant upside down and sight through scope to star. Rack sextant to roughly get horizon, invert sextant and go for your reading. Makes it that bit easier for confidence.

On those full moon nights too, can pass a watch going for the moon itself, Polaris for latitude, a passing planet, or an obvious star like Sirius. Nice feeling when it turns out right and without having the Theory exam tucked away, the examiner can ask you and indeed set written questions on those parts of the course.

For a compass check, you can simply take a sight and with whole numbers enter the tables to get the suns true bearing without doing the complete reduction. This is one of a number of methods, see also Tom Cunliffe Ocean Sailing.

Both have got fab practical tips and I use them a lot. Lots of folk recommend Mary Blewitts book, but being a mental midget, I loose interest after page 1....

Hope this helps!
 
GHA said:
I'm looking at this one, pub249 vol1 a selected stars (but epoch 2010)
http://www.amazon.com/PUB-Sight-Reduction-Tables-Navigation/dp/B002Y1EGNK
But as a free download.

On a practical level, do you go for a bright one first to get as much time as possible, or pick to try get the best cocked hat you can.
Click to expand...

That's that one.

The sequence should give you stars that are visible and yes they should be bright enough and visible through the telescope of any half decent sextant.

From memory, the sequence also takes into account visibility of the horizon. You start with where the horizon is visible and end where the horizon is still visible. The stars are also chosen to give you a good cocked hat and with some extras in case there's a cloud in front of one that you want to shoot. Just move onto the next and carry on. If you can get five or six you will discover (when you plot them) that several intercept quite well and one or two are duff ones that you've made a mistake with.

A lot of the skill is the speed at which you can alter the sextant to the predicted angle, find the star, swing it down to the horizon, call NOW and give the sextant altitude to your assistant to write down against the time you called 'NOW' while you set the sextant up to the next predicted altitude and try and work out the bearing to look down to find the next star. Then on to the next star quickly as you've only got a few minutes in some latitudes while the horizon is visible and the stars are visible. A team of three can get very slick at it, two is hard work and one can be downright frustrating. A diagram of which way to point is helpful with altitudes, plus a very good autopilot or helm that holds you on course so that the boat veering about doesn't add to your problems.

edit: I've tried the tricks suggested by Capnsensible and sometimes the sextant upside down one works very well, sometime's I just can;'t get on with it. (Lack of practice probably)

I'd forgotten about the little diamonds for brightest and best...
 
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I tried to be a smart-alec and include a moon-sight for my OYM. Hopeless! Since then I've tried several times, but never got good results.

I've also found stars quite tricky, even when a suitable one has been identified spotting it through the sextant is not that easy. Respect to those who do this.

But I've managed Venus and Jupiter, which are easy to identify. They are bright enough that on a calm night they will sometimes illuminate the horizon well enough for a sight even after twilight.
 
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