Yachtmaster ocean - on line course?

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Bi111ion

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I am hoping to do my first over 1000 nm tropical ocean passage next May as crew. I have skippered my own boat on long passages in the North Sea but not this long. I was thinking to make the most of it to take the YM ocean course and practice sun sights and maybe get the qualification when I come back. I actually did a celestial navigation course in the 1990s but forgotten much of that, and I have practised sun sights in my garden with an artificial horizon.

So I was thinking of signing up for an online course (http://www.sailtrain.org.uk for example). What are people's experience of doing it on line? Is it worth finding a (rare) in person course instead?

[BTW I don't want to get in a debate about if mariners need to learn celestial navigation. I personally want to]
 
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Thanks for the link. I have had several conversations with Instructors about doing the Ocean Course over several weekends and they have never come to much. Doing it online is a very viable option.
 
Sandy said:
Thanks for the link. I have had several conversations with Instructors about doing the Ocean Course over several weekends and they have never come to much. Doing it online is a very viable option.
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One downside of online might be lack of fellow students to commiserate with. I think I am going towards the online route so anyone who wants to "share the virtual experience" is welcome to pm me. By the way I am also on the forum NavList and the archive of that list has a wealth of celestial navigation information as well as many very experienced contributers.
 
Do note that the theory course is not a pre-requisite for the YM Ocean qualification. if you feel confident with astro might familiarising yourself with the rest of the syllabus from a book be an alternative to an online course?

Having recently read the second edition of Jack Lagan's "Barefoot navigator" i'm actually up for a bit of debate about the YM Ocean syllabus
 
laika said:
Do note that the theory course is not a pre-requisite for the YM Ocean qualification. if you feel confident with astro might familiarising yourself with the rest of the syllabus from a book be an alternative to an online course?

Having recently read the second edition of Jack Lagan's "Barefoot navigator" i'm actually up for a bit of debate about the YM Ocean syllabus
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Passing the theory course does exempt you from the written part of the exam, though.

What bits don't you like about the current syllabus? Personally, I find that the compass check for deviation is very difficult to get a useful result from on a bouncy plastic thingy.
 
laika: Recommendations for books also welcome. Have Mary Blewitt's obviously but more recent?

capnsensible: The tropical weather is the bit I am least confident about I think.
 
capnsensible said:
What bits don't you like about the current syllabus? Personally, I find that the compass check for deviation is very difficult to get a useful result from on a bouncy plastic thingy.
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My compass has a spike in the middle of the card that casts a nice shadow on when it is sunny. Its easy to check this against the azimuth. I snap a photo on my phone as it tags the time to look up later. If you steam in a slow circle (full circle within a few minutes) taking photos every 10 degrees you have easily swung your compass. You only need the azimuth to get the lubber line error (A0) though. See my blog for a photo http://tuioyster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/checking-compas.html
 
Couple of good books, popular with successful candidates are Ocean Sailing by Tom Cunliffe, also has short sections on world weather. Plus Astro Navigation by Tim Bartlett. Rare is the person who still uses the outdated Blewitt....

Part of the exam is to produce a record of a compass check carried out using the bearing of the sun, moon , star or planet. Tried this a lot and found it was often more of a good guess than a measurement!

Good luck with your trip!
 
Summary of on line schools I have found so far


1) Navathome http://www.navathome.com/ocean_yach...ccPin_WZsMlD1_i8z1wmD21-1DlyMZsYaAiz6EALw_wcB £295 .

The others I have found seem to be schools that use Navathome materials anyway, presumably offering support and advice from their own instructors

2) Sailtrain http://www.sailtrain.org.uk/yachtmaster_ocean_online.html £285 uses navathome

3) Classic Sailing http://www.classic-sailing.co.uk/rya-yacht-master-ocean-theory-online-course £315 but turns out it is just Navathome,

Others from RYA web site lists these correspondence courses
4) http://www.eastanglianseaschool.com/index.php/shorebased-rya-yachtmaster-ocean-shorebased 5 days: £485.00 Correspondence Course : £365

5) http://yachtmaster.co.uk/correspondence-courses/ Course fee: £210.00 (UK)
£250.00 (Worldwide)

6) http://www.mendezmarine.co.uk/course/rya-ocean-yachtmaster-theory-online/ Doesnt say but links to Navathome free trail! £295

7) http://www.oceantraining.com/acatalog/RYA-MCA-Yachtmaster-Ocean-52.html#SID=14 £320 " Comes on a USB stick so that you get all the coursework upfront. (Ideal for slow or poor internet connection) - True "Plug & Play"

The Navathome web site says "Available for PC and mac. Uses Flash graphics which can be downloaded free from Adobe." Not going to work on my Android tablet or Ubuntu laptop then I presume. What a pain they use obsolescent technology for animations (actually I will test this and report back) ...drilling down in the free trail it says "At the present time the Ocean Yachtmaster theory course will only work on PC. The free RYA chartplotter simulator will only work on PC.". That is a bit vague. A PC running what MS Windows 10? MS Windows XP? Debian Gnu Hurd? Come to think of there is a laptop running Windows somewhere in the house.

Software aside the difference between providers is probably down to the instructors you are in touch with. Maybe I will wait and see if anyone has personal experience and recommendations?
 
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Bi111ion said:
Recommendations for books also welcome.
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My preferred text book is Ocean Yachtmaster published by Adlard Coles.

If you’re the sort of person who wants a text book to show you how to use a sight reduction template and plot the position line on a commercially available plotting sheet then this is not the book for you. However, if you’d like to understand the process in a little more detail and to derive a PL from a sight using a “clean sheet of paper”, perhaps also to construct your own plotting sheet on the back of a chart and so on then you’ll enjoy working through the chapters.
 
capnsensible said:
Personally, I find that the compass check for deviation is very difficult to get a useful result from on a bouncy plastic thingy.
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How do you do it?

I’ve only ever done it as a back-up to electrickery but for my qualifying passage I made a Pelorus/Azimuth ring to fit over the Plastimo steering compasses. Probably no better than using eye but I made the effort.

It’s a good once per day check (use the result from the forenoon sun sight) to ensure that you’re not steering towards the iPod induced deviation :)

Taking and reducing sights on a passage is good fun. It takes me at least an hour to plot the PL after taking a series of sights. I’m in awe of aero navigators.

I watched a TV documentary recently that told of space explorers needing to navigate by sextant. Good to know that there’s somewhere to hide from electronics!
 
Bi111ion said:
laika: Recommendations for books also welcome.
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The only two I have were the two that were "current" 10 years ago and have already been mentioned: Cunliffe's "Ocean Sailing" and the Langley-Price and Ouvrey one davidjackson mentions. I have derided the cunliffe one for having no maths background and being the bare minimum you need to know to get through the exam (both astro and non-astro) but for many that's its strength. It also doesn't take up much room on the bookshelf which is why that one is on the boat and the other is in storage. My memory of the Langley-Price and Ouvrey one could be suspect but I recall it had more detail than the cunliffe one but not enough to come away from it with a good understanding of spherical trigonometry

The only online course I've done is the PPR course. I booked that through sailtrain just because I tend to use their online colregs for reference occasionally but I think everyone resells the same PPR course, whereas other courses will have vendor-specific implementations.

capnsensible said:
What bits don't you like about the current syllabus? Personally, I find that the compass check for deviation is very difficult to get a useful result from on a bouncy plastic thingy.
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I didn't say I disliked the syllabus :-)

The usual argument on here goes that emphasis on astro is an anachronism. What I've not seen argued is that dependence on a *particular type* of non-electronic navigtion is an anachronism. The YM Ocean syllabus relies on the most accurate practical navigation technique commonly available to recreational sailors 30 years ago. Why base it there? Apart from a compass check the only other thing in the minimum requirements is a sun-run. That relies on an accurate time source. If you sailed from Norway to Greenland with just a sunboard, or calculated longitude using the lunar distance method you wouldn't meet requirements.

not necessarily advocating a change...just being contentious...
 
davidjackson said:
How do you do it?

I’ve only ever done it as a back-up to electrickery but for my qualifying passage I made a Pelorus/Azimuth ring to fit over the Plastimo steering compasses. Probably no better than using eye but I made the effort.

It’s a good once per day check (use the result from the forenoon sun sight) to ensure that you’re not steering towards the iPod induced deviation :)

Taking and reducing sights on a passage is good fun. It takes me at least an hour to plot the PL after taking a series of sights. I’m in awe of aero navigators.

I watched a TV documentary recently that told of space explorers needing to navigate by sextant. Good to know that there’s somewhere to hide from electronics!
Click to expand...

Either amplitude tables for the Suns bearing at sunrise or sunset, or sighting across the compass with a straight edge then knocking out an LHA to get z and then zn.

Rolly boat on big ocean is a bit guessy though!
 
laika said:
The only two I have were the two that were "current" 10 years ago and have already been mentioned: Cunliffe's "Ocean Sailing" and the Langley-Price and Ouvrey one davidjackson mentions. I have derided the cunliffe one for having no maths background and being the bare minimum you need to know to get through the exam (both astro and non-astro) but for many that's its strength. It also doesn't take up much room on the bookshelf which is why that one is on the boat and the other is in storage. My memory of the Langley-Price and Ouvrey one could be suspect but I recall it had more detail than the cunliffe one but not enough to come away from it with a good understanding of spherical trigonometry

The only online course I've done is the PPR course. I booked that through sailtrain just because I tend to use their online colregs for reference occasionally but I think everyone resells the same PPR course, whereas other courses will have vendor-specific implementations.



I didn't say I disliked the syllabus :-)

The usual argument on here goes that emphasis on astro is an anachronism. What I've not seen argued is that dependence on a *particular type* of non-electronic navigtion is an anachronism. The YM Ocean syllabus relies on the most accurate practical navigation technique commonly available to recreational sailors 30 years ago. Why base it there? Apart from a compass check the only other thing in the minimum requirements is a sun-run. That relies on an accurate time source. If you sailed from Norway to Greenland with just a sunboard, or calculated longitude using the lunar distance method you wouldn't meet requirements.

not necessarily advocating a change...just being contentious...
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I think air navigation tables have been the key to making it easy. Those and a ten quid Casio will get your position anywhere. Have you ever tried the method in the almanac? Easy to make a mistake when knackered......Mebbe I should practice that more, less weight to hump around!
 
I did YMO theory online this year and wish I hadn't, though I did pass.
Tutor support was rapid but hardly tailored to my queries : just a reiteration of the online explanation. I also found that copy and paste was used to excess in the training material with many consequent errors. Even after bringing these to the attention of my tutor they remained in the training material. It would have been great to have direct practical instructions on sextant use and, after the course, my access to all course materials ceased, so preventing the occasional bit of revision. I tried to get around this with screen grabs but it was a cumbersome process.
I used one of the providers mentioned by the OP (I won't say which as it would be unfair to single them out.) I used to develop and deliver online training and I have to say I was distinctly unimpressed with my YMO experience which also compared unfavourably with the RYA's online PPR course, if you have taken that.
The only reason I didnt do a traditional YMO was the distance to my nearest provider. With hindsight the travel and accommodation would have been worthwhile.
I also used Cunliffe's book which contained all the info I needed but some of the explanations were a bit rushed.
 
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GHA said:
As for books, I quite liked this one, and only a few quid on kindle >
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Astro-Navi.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
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Thanks I ordered the Ocean Yachtmaster book from Amazon . I also found I had Tom Cuncliffe's book Celestial Navigation as an e-book and just reread it. It has great advice about not needing to know the names of the stars -- if you have AP 3270 (which I don't). The links to videos are dead but here is one on YouTube and that links to the rest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVlT6IJV-a8
 
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