Yachting advice for a newbie

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Surfwizard

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Hi this is my first post (and hopefully on the right forum).

Being new to yachting and about to take the plunge I'd like some advice. We are a family of three, at least for the foreseeable future intend to stay in on shore waters and rivers. We have a budget of about £40k-£45K.

1. We like to the look of the new Bavaria 30, but are there any other yachts we should be looking at?

2. As well as mooring costs what other hidden costs should we budget for.

3. Any other advice you can offer for someone who's in the process of getting the required RYA Exams and therefore limited experience.
 
That's a hell of a budget range. You won't get a Bavaria 30 for £450, though.

Other costs to budget for are:- insurance, engine servicing and general maintenance. Annual lift out and put back (if you come out for the winter), antifouling.

Biggest cost, other than the boat itself is for all of the personal stuff and toys for the boat.
 
Get as much sailing on as many different types of boats as possible before thinking about buying a boat. Crew for others, join a sailing club etc.

With experience comes knowledge of what you really want out of a boat, and which sorts of boat offer that.

For example you need to know if you want to prioritise performance or ease of handling? Sea keeping or accomodation?
But for a kickoff, with a young family I would suggest not buying a boat that becomes bouncy and difficult to sail as the breeze picks up. One experience in a boat like that can be enough to put youngsters and even nervous adults off the sport completely. Which is really not what you want having just shelled out a big wad of cash on a new boat!
 
Hi, welcome, and yes, this is the right forum!

Don't forget the surveyor's fees unless you are buying new and frankly I would get a surveyor to check even a new boat as there are usually more defects in a new boat than in a new old boat.

Then all the gear like charts, pilots, log, binoculars, HBC, life jackets, wet weather gear and other clothing, sleeping bags and bedding, all the galley stuff, tools to leave on the boat, warps, tender/outboard, handheld VHF, portable radio, torches, flares, foghorn, MOB device if you have kids, boat hook, fenders, polishes and cleaning stuff....... You will be shocked...nay stunned and comatose, at the total!
 
If you really want to purchase I would seriously suggest looking at a smaller older boat for a couple of seasons - reasons behind this are:
1) If you decide you don't like it then you can sell up and not loose so much money
2) It gives you and your family time to decide what type of sailing you want to do and have a good look at what is out there
3) You can make all your mistakes in an older boat that doesn't mind a few knocks!!
 
Hi Surfwizard
Welcome to the forum.What area are you in ?
If you are on the RYA Course (Theory I assume) you could get some experience from the other students and possibly the instructor.
Join a club,get as much sailing as crew on as many boats as possible then charter the type of boat you are interested in.Get the family opinions and be prepared for a very expensive but fantastic pleasure.Every pound/euro spent on sailing is well worth it.Good luck
 
Get the mooring costs and availability as that will influence all other options.
Remember the cost of getting to and from the boat.
Personal Gear is expensive. Get Coastal suits!
Lots of 'Orange' gear i.e. Safety equipment Jackets, Harnesses, Flares, Radar reflector
Boat safety gear like jackstays, life raft possibly, fire extinguishers, fire blankets
Tender, outboard etc
Nothing is included in a new boat - mine cost about 11k to fit out, and I havent finished yet. I had quite a bit of equipment carried forward from previous boats.
Yearly lift in lift out, antifouling.
Servicing all equipment inc engine, life raft, jackets, sails valeted.
Cost of a cradle
Replacement costs over 10 years of rigging, sails, dodgers, anything that wears or rots basically
Cost of mooring away from your base - you will be visiting other places. Marina Fees, Restaurant, drinks etc
Cost of entertaining friends on board

There is lots more. You will need upward of 5k a year for a 30 footer.
 
Agree with others - if you haven't aleady done so, do some chartering including in UK.

30 ft is a good size for a combination of comfort and price. As the first boat one of my key criteria would be ease of re-sale so that if you get hooked and can afford to upgrade you will be able to do so easily. This would also mean a second-hand boat that will not depreciate - a new Bav will depreciate and there are risks about ease of re-sale as Bavs are a bit controversial - they have been a bit unfairly sniffed at because of some historical keel problems. I would look at a lot of different boats around 30', avoiding anything that has been 'home finished' and go for a safe, resaleable model. Not about to advise as I'm not a broker - oh and watch them too as some will try to palm you off with whatever is not selling. And, get a survey.
 
For your first boat, I would go secondhand as well. and spend no more than 15 - 20K.

You could ask forum members to sail on some of their boats to get an idea of what you want. Do you want performance? Comfort? Coastal cruising? Passage making capability in the future?

For sure, what you think you want now is not likely to be what you think you want after your first year of sailing.

Another thought. Unless you are very lucky, like some forum members, you are very likely to be sailing on your own, or with your mates after 6 months of sailing. So your current likely requirements of a waterborne caravan may not be so important then!
 
And it's welcome from me.....

Your Bav 30 is an attractive-looking boat. Have you hunted out any 'yachting magazine' reviews? There's a certain 'old pirate' who posts on here from time to time, whose opinions are usually worth listening to ( don't tell him I said so! ), called James Jarmain. If he expresses a view, it's probably worth careful pondering - and reading between the lines!

That said, and conscious of the other sound advice already posted, you could do much worse than doing some out-of-season charter with the likes of Hamble Point Yacht Charter.

They're a good bunch, and if you explain that you're looking for pointers towards what you like and what you don't, then they will - most likely - be rather helpful. An alternative to that - a bit further away, but well worth the extra travel IMHO - is to do a short cruise or course with the Island Cruising Club . They are legendary good value.....

And there are lots of peeps who read and post on here who would be pleased to help, and can point you away from the kind of mistakes we made, while helping to save you money, too.

Aren't we good? Just sort out the wheat from the chaff....


/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I agree with the comments above because

1. In some ways I regreted buying a new(ish) boat for our first season. It adds a lot of stress. Even now I'm sometimes envious of the salty old sea dog that crashes into the pontoon with his 1969 MacWestard Nasty without a care in the world.

2. Don't take this as another piece of random Bavaria knocking .... we really really wanted to like the Bavaria 30 at SIBS. It would have suited us to find something that would do the job for £50K .... It looked great from the outside, but I couldn't believe how rough it was from the inside. Its not for me i'm afraid .... and yoyu can be sure they didn't take the Friday afternoon boat to the show? Part of the mast was missing too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Welcome..

Echo much of above....

Don't get caught out by the marketing blurb from manufacturers on new boat prices..... the listed prices are for a pretty basic boat, and even the 'sailaway' packages don't include much of what many would consider essential..... as a guide... we recently looked at a new boat, and reckoned on about £20k above the listed 'base' price to add all the initial bits... some of that you could get away without, but others, like anchor, VHF, antifoul and lift in would seem to be somewhat more essential!

FullCircle above has done a good job of listing some of the many many other bits you'll need to buy..... its easy to forget things like £150 for a full set of engine spares, £250 for a family set of lifejackets, £70 for a basic set of flares, £50 to £100 to equip yourself with a decent range of charts etc etc...

Wouldn't want to put you off, its undoubtedly the greatest and most satisfying hobby/sport/pastime you could ever undertake.... but I would also recommend a slightly older boat, and then move it on after 12 to 18 mths when you will have a much better idea of what your needs are.....
 
Along with everyone else - my advice - DON'T BUY A BOAT (yet).
Charter. Sail in friend's boats. Join a club (I have had some great sailing in an old classic yacht owned and operated by a club). Or all the above. You will learn more, have fewer problems and save an awful lot of money. And when do do finally get your own boat you will know what you want and what to look for.
Also keep a diary and be really honest in your entries. For a year keep a tab on how much time you would really, really have to go sailing. Include house maintenance, job-related crises, holidays doing other things, visits from relatives, bad weather, health problems ... you may be surprised at how little time you actually have. (Unless, like me, you have some income but no actual job!) If you can't find about five or six weeks in a year it may be cheaper to charter. Incidentally I'm told, and can well believe, that average yacht usage is equivalent to no more than a few weekends per year.
Harbours, moorings and marinas around the coast of this sceptred isle are choked up with boats which never go to sea from one month to the next. The owners thought they would have time to go sailing but it never worked out like that. If you don't at first believe me, and I wouldn't blame you, just take a look around any marina on a sunny weekend (if there are any left this year) and you will find that most of the boats don't move, they just sit there neglected.
And ... you may find that spouse and offspring might not want to sail with you all the time.
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant but I'm just fed up with "this is the ideal boat for anyone starting sailing", it's hogwash. Join a club which operates its own boats, you will get more sailing that way. Family can come with you or be independent. Above all, please don't contribute to the huge marine caravan parks which disfigure our coastline.
Oh, and by the way, in answer to your questions. Others have given you an idea on just how much it costs to maintain a boat ie far more than you think. Don't forget to include the interest you would have got on the money you would have invested, if you hadn't spent it on a boat. Interest on 45k should be a useful few grand which you can add to the spreadsheet.
And also: Bavarias and similar yachts are intended to sail offshore. They are not ideal yachts for inshore use, and certainly not for inland waters; they are bigger than you need and their size and draught will keep them out of most inland and some inshore waters (upper reaches of Poole Harbour for instance).
Again, apologies for rant.
 
Welcome!

There are alot of your fellow forumites that are in the Industry as a profession.

You are benefitting from literally 100's of years worth of experience, and probably £1,000,000's worth of 'Accidents!'

PM alant, he has been in the industry since Noah! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif (sorry Al!) Ask his advice, he's always happy to help.

We all wish you the best! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But, turn and run before it gets you! Get out while you have a chance!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

No, I can't lie, you'll love it!

Again, Welcome.

AJ
 
Hi, welcome.
Do you have any sailing experience? I'd go with other advice and suggest blagging as many sails on differing boats as possible. You may find the learning curve a lot shallower on a 25-28ft older yacht than on a new 30ft+ boat. You may find you prefer an older type of boat rather than a brand new squeaky clean one.
I think MagnaCarter's point [ QUOTE ]
but I would also recommend a slightly older boat, and then move it on after 12 to 18 mths when you will have a much better idea of what your needs are.....

[/ QUOTE ] is very relevant. It seems to be an accepted fact that most 1st time buyers change boats fairly quickly when they refine their requirements.
 
Re: Yachting advice for a newbie - at the risk of being contraversial.

If this is your first boat, don't even think about buying a new one. If possible, try someone elses first, either by chartering or better still, a friends.

For family sailing, buy something solid that you can sail single handed in an emergency - avoid anything that is all double berths. (I'm not a fan of Westerly's in general but they do fit the bill. There was a very useful 30 footer with a decent hull shape (?Merlin). Alternatively, Sadler 29).

Also, from a financial perspective, give serious consideration to keeping the boat away from the Solent - not good value. From Basingstoke, you are far better off being based in Dartmouth or Torbay or even Plymouth even with the travelling. Given this is a new venture for the family, the sailing in the SW has much to recommend it - more room, cheaper moorings, nicer destinations.
 
By all means buy a boat, but if you want you and your family to get the most out of sailing, then buy a sailing dinghy. If you go straight for a Bav 30 (not my cup of tea, but it takes all sorts...) then it is very likely indeed that you will put your family off sailing, and even if not that, they may never learn how to do it well.

On a sailing dinghy you learn to be a good sailor fast, and its GOOD FUN, so the kids will love it. I suspect the wife will get much more into it that way too. Going straight for a 30'-er you will either scare them to death or bore them to death, and even if they stick with it they will learn to sail very slowly, perhaps never become good sailors (assuming that you'll be the skipper).

In the meantime, after they've got hooked on the dinghy, try chartering a 30'-er a few times. And keep in mind that there are other options out there and there may be more important things in a boat than a glossy interior to impress the family.
 
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