Yacht Skipper accused obstructing warship

[Danny Jo]

Well...

Being ex RN and having suffered at the hands of a few- a very few- hofficer p r i c k s it is nice to be on equal footing with the management of a warship....
As for the licence- they might be free now- I don't know,still don't have one, but then they cost money. Not that I have a problem spending a few bob but it really peed me off to fork out some cash for yet another useless bit of paper.

BTW - loved the Blue Peter show with the young elephant.

In the 50s my ex-RNVR granddad loved encounters with warships. If he had a grandchild on board, he'd say, "Watch this", and dip his ensign. Some unfortunate midshipman would then come running out on deck to make an answering dip.

 

[NormanS]

in what way please ?

I understand that it's only obligatory for vessels over 25m to have VHF in use at all times. If I potter out for a little fishing in a dinghy, and don't have a vhf on, why is that 'selfish' please ?

Have you ever considered that someone in a boat quite close to you might need some assistance? You might well be able to help someone, but if your radio is switched off, you wouldn't know. I call that selfish.

 

[Seven Spades]

"...if not Duffers, won't drown"

 

[sea]

I obstructed a warship some years ago, i was 13-15 years old windsurfing in the Tamar, i was totally oblivious to the fact i had a large grey vessel several hundred meters behind me until i saw the police launch waving frantically at me, i thought it may have been due to breaking the speed limit.

A couple of seconds later i felt the vibrations through the water, looked behind and totally cacked myself! This was enough in itself to freeze up and nearly fall off. As i was young they were keen to find my parent/guardian who was also doing 20-40 knots up and down the river. Now i feel quite lucky there was no come backs. Which leads me to a question i have often wondered about, do windsurfers have to obey speed limits? Of course we never do as the whole point of the sport is speed, but then would this count for smaller dinghies?
Where do you draw the line? Im pretty sure the rumbling i felt was the vessel taking avoiding action. Should they have thrown the book at me for making an honest mistake?

 

[bilbobaggins]

Should they have thrown the book at me for making an honest mistake?

A stand-up *******ing from a uniformed Naval Officer ( they're rather good at those! ) would be well remembered by a 13-15 year old....

 

[puddock]

This whole thread just reminds me of the reason why (before starting to sail) I thought yachtsmen where a bunch of stuck up, arrogant arseh-les.
Thankfully, since starting to sail, I have found the situation to be quite the opposite, with the vast majority being extremelly knowledgeable, helpful, good company, with a great 'smattering' of common sense and a "easy come-easy go" attitude to life, befitting of the sailing ethique.
Remind me never to move the boat to "THE SOLENT"..........

 

[puddock]

A stand-up *******ing from a uniformed Naval Officer ( they're rather good at those! ) would be well remembered by a 13-15 year old....

But nowadays, that would probably result in a lawsuit and a criminal conviction, with associated compensation claims to both "Little Timmy Darling" and his parents (all 7 of them.........mum, dad and all te other dad's in the intervening years).

 

[sea]

But nowadays, that would probably result in a lawsuit and a criminal conviction, with associated compensation claims to both "Little Timmy Darling" and his parents (all 7 of them.........mum, dad and all te other dad's in the intervening years).

Watch it, im the Little Timmy in question.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Imho, on a practical level small leisure vessels should keep out of the way of shipping at all times (ie sail and power), irrespective of the strict letter of the colregs, and most sensible ones do.

Most sensible ones learn the IRPCS and obey them. The ones who 'try to keep out of the way of everything' drive professional navigators mad as they can't work out what they are going to do next.

Every bridge watchkeeper that I have known or met or worked with has usually been very proud of their seamanship, knowledge of the IRPCS and the way that they apply them. Many hold in contempt yachtsmen who seem to have no idea of what they are doing and are completely unpredictable. I suspect that some of the actions are because these same yachtsment are 'trying to keep out of the way...'

 

[TamarMike]

I know all this as, during the "halcyon" years of John Major's government, I was involved in an incident in the same place, while bringing a "Pusser's Grey" into Plymouth., along the charted and buoyed channel. A strong northerly was blowing, and a windsurfer decided to "come and play" as we were making the westerly leg to the N of Drake's Island. He first circled our preceding ModPlod (which now had his flashing blue lights going), and then decided to do the same to us. Unfortunately, he lost it about 100 yards in front of us.

Full astern both stopped us in time, but left us being set very quickly down towards Drakes Island. Luckily the ModPlod plucked him out of the water and we just about squeeked past and berthed without further incident. At closest, we had been about 30 yards away from grounding.

Did winsdurfers used to make a habit of this?

I recall about 20 years ago being 'passenger' on a tug heading from the Cattewater to the dockyard with a barge north of Drake's island when a girl windsurfer kept zigzaging in front of us. I was out on a bridge wing chatting with one of the crew and we watched her fall off and flouder about directly in front of her. As we got closer we said "wonder why the Man isn't slowing or turning", when we got within about 50 metres we shouted to the skipper that he was going to run her down he repled he couldn't see anyone (he was a short chap and the tug had a high turtle deck at the bow. He quickly turned to port but we only just missed her, by now she had given up getting back up and was frantically trying to paddle out of the way!

 

[fergie_mac66]

Did winsdurfers used to make a habit of this?

They must do about 20 years ago going into Christchurch in a 9m cat both engines running hard to stem tide
A windsurfer came straight across in front of us.He came of the board and went straight between both hulls. We cut both engine for about 10 seconds
while he came out the stern the air was blue ... and the water appeared to be locally brown

 

[NPMR]

HMS Cornwall gave way to us!

On passage under engine in a flat calm, we were West of the Eddystone Lt Ho and a warship was to our East going in circles.

As his 'circle' crossed our track ahead several times I was somewhat confused as to how to deal with him and how to get out of his way. So I called him on VHF!

"Warship circling west of Eddystone, this is Yacht "Huzzah" etc" (all proper VHF - speak) "I am unable to determine your intentions".

They called me back and stopped what they were doing until we'd passed them.

Very gentlemanly of them I thought.

On the same tack (see - a nautical phrase to link the thoughts!!) my Bro-in-law is a ships master and his BIG complaint is that from the bridge you just can't see white boats/sails very easily. All sails should be red, he feels. So we do have to give them a little lattitude for their ship handling problems.

On another occasion we were motoring across the breakwater but well outside the entrance when a large warship came out but quite slowly and technically we had stand on rights but made it obvious we were giving way and had a nice lady officer come out of the bridge and acknowledge this. Again, it seemed to be fair.

 

[snowleopard]

Have you ever considered that someone in a boat quite close to you might need some assistance? You might well be able to help someone, but if your radio is switched off, you wouldn't know. I call that selfish.

Too right. Last season I heard a Mayday from a boat that was taking in water. His position was about 2 miles from me so I responded to the CG and headed off to see if I could help. 2 other boats within 100 yds of me just carried on. Either they didn't have their radios on or they decided to let some other b****r put himself out to help.

 

[Duffer]

I've only found the MOD RIBs to be courteous and sensible in Plymouth. I once got my prop fouled near the chain ferries and while sailing back to the marina in light and flukey winds a foreign warship came slicing up through the narrows. The rib said if I couldn't get out of the way they would push me out of the way which they then did. After the ship had passed the rib came back to see if they could help.

Regarding having the VHF on I think this is the prudent thing to do and I have a handheld in the cockpit. I know someone who hit a rock. A nearby fisherman tried to warn him but his VHF was off. The fisherman then dragged him off the rock and luckily there was little damage.

 

[gliptus]

I think that the debate here has been mostly very balanced. Having both sailed yachts and driven large warships into Plymouth Sound I can see both sides. From the warship point of view the minimum easy speed while maintaining steerage way is about 6 knots. If you slow below that not only can it be difficult to control the Ship's head but also you can start to slide sideways quite quickly - in a decent wind a stationary frigate can do 4 knots sideways. With the speed limit 10 knots you have a fairly restricted range of available speeds. The other issue is the available safe water. Depending on the tide, once past half way up the sound, ships going to the dockyard may only have about 50 yds of safe water either side. Grand manoeuvers to avoid yachts often just aren't possible. More than once I've been on the bridge of a warship looking at a yacht, counting down the seconds he has left to alter before I have to do a crash stop.

The limited room for warship manoeuvre though also works in a yacht's favour. Because they will stick to the track so much - marked on Admiralty charts - you can go almost anywhere else and know that the Ships will not go into your bit of water. There are pretty much only three things that a warship will be doing inside the sound: (1) going up to or comming out from the dockyard, (2) comming in from sea to go to anchor or a bouy in the sound, and (3) comming in from sea to do a boat transfer just North of the breakwater and then go out again. The presence of the SWATH transfer boats Cawsand or Bovisand is a good indication that its option 3 and anchoring is most common on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings. Work out what the warship is doing and its easy to keep clear.

Not of course that it is necessarily the yacht's responsibilty to keep clear. Legally, in order, it is probably first the yacht's responsibility to aviod impeding the passage of the warship, which will be a power driven vessel operating in a narrow channel or fairway. If a yacht doesn't do this then it may well find a MOD police boat alongside, whose orders I understand are backed up by a bylaw. And finally if the yacht and warship get into a situation involving risk of collision then the standard rules apply - overtaking vessel keeps clear, power keeps clear of sail and between two power vessels the one which has the other on her own starboard side etc... Sound signals are useful in making your intentions clear. I'm sure the Navy doesn't come up with the perfect manoeuvre all the time, but we really do try to follow the rules and do our job without inconveniencing anyone else.

 

[sea]

Did winsdurfers used to make a habit of this?/QUOTE]

yes, i have been windsurfing in the Tamar since i was 6 yrs old and i have seen more CG rescues than i care to remember. One guy was so close to a warship that he was rammed by a modplod, once in the water they hauled him aboard and gave him a bloody good rollocking! The next week he turned up to the spot without his windsurfing trailer but with a brand new jet ski in tow, that was enough to put him off the sport all together.

I also recall a rescue by the CG, when windsurfing you don't have a radio or phone etc so when a rescue boat turns up it has been called by someone else. He refused to get in the RIB, they refused to leave him alone. So he gave up and climbed in, at that same moment the CG took out an axe, and proceeded to put it clean through his mast (90% carbon) probably about £1800's worth. As you can imagine he was fuming and the coast guards found it quite amusing, as did we watching from the shore!

IMHO we are not well liked in the Tamar, 99% of the time we are careful and courteous. Of course there is always one to let us down.

Just a quick question however, are we breaking the law by doing 3-4 times the speed limit? Of course we make no wash, and i have never been told to slow down, an order i would happily directly ignor and put down to an officious plod.

 

[bilbobaggins]

"....Just a quick question however, are we breaking the law by doing 3-4 times the speed limit? Of course we make no wash, and i have never been told to slow down, an order i would happily directly ignore and put down to an officious plod...."

I'll be highly amused - and not one jot sympathetic - to hear that a high-speed recidivist windsurfer has been arrested by HM Dockyard Police and left to cool his heels overnight in an RN cell, before being brought - barefoot - before a Plymouth magistrate still clad in his/her Lycra wetsuit.....

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

i have never been told to slow down, an order i would happily directly ignor and put down to an officious plod.

Good man!

If the RN ever give you **** just tell them they're in Iranian waters. How many prisoners can you fit on your windsurfer???

 

[sea]

I'll be highly amused - and not one jot sympathetic - to hear that a high-speed recidivist windsurfer has been arrested by HM Dockyard Police and left to cool his heels overnight in an RN cell, before being brought - barefoot - before a Plymouth magistrate still clad in his/her Lycra wetsuit.....

I would be first in the public gallery, and yes highly amused.

Gotta give it to the Plods, they have never once tried to stop us having fun, they leave us be as long as we do the same to them. Maybe because a regular at our spot is actually one of them!?

The 10 knot thing would still be interesting to know.

 

[bilbobaggins]

I would be first in the public gallery, and yes highly amused.

Gotta give it to the Plods, they have never once tried to stop us having fun, they leave us be as long as we do the same to them. Maybe because a regular at our spot is actually one of them!?

The 10 knot thing would still be interesting to know.

Let's have a go at the sports divers, then......