Yacht Skipper accused obstructing warship

This discussion has reminded me of an encounter, I hope people will go gentle with me. If I’ve made mistakes please don‘t flame!

I was single-handed in a Sigma 33 in the middle of Portsmouth Harbour sailing downwind down the middle of the Harbour. I was due E of the N side of Forton Lake - about 7 cables N of the entrance to Portsmouth Harbour. I didn’t have auto helm. VHF was off.

I noticed HMS Iron Duke at the entrance. (She was expected.) I made a sharp S turn and carried on my merry way hugging the W side of the harbour. In the mean time in the distance her MOD Plod escort had begun to give it beans and was heading my way.

I didn’t hear any of the ensuing b*ll*cking but at the end I was told QHM had attempted to contact me and got no response. I was instructed to get on the radio and apologize to QHM. At my request he repeated this instruction, so I am clear on that. For various reasons, although I assumed I was in the wrong, I opted not to apologize to QHM.

At the time I assumed I’d got too close to HMS Iron Duke and thought no more about it but this thread has jogged my memory and now I’m not so sure.

AFAIC LNTM 40-05 creates an exclusion Zone of 250m round warships. By any stretch of the imagination I was miles outside of that.

I wasn’t responding to Radio comms but since 2005 as far as I know that‘s not an obligation. In fact wasn’t it always an obligation to listen - not to respond?

So what had I done wrong? Is there a relevant LNTM I’m unaware of that I‘d infringed?

Secondly, in practical terms was his instruction to get on the radio and apologize to QHM a good idea? I’d have had to go below leaving myself out of control. For all he knew I might not even had had a license. Since I’ve heard nothing back it seems an apology was not required. If it had been, a phone call at a later date might have been more convenient for QHM and myself. (I knew it wasn‘t a good idea in legal terms - I felt there was a good chance I’d committed a £6000 crime and I wasn’t about to admit it and identify myself to QHM!
 
MarkieMarkMark said:
.....her MOD Plod escort had begun to give it beans and was heading my way.
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Do I understand that the 'MoD Plod escort' was exceeding the regulation speed limit....?

Do I understand that you were given instructions by a Police Officer to do something (s)he has no powers to require of a member of the public?

Perhaps a formal written complaint is appropriate.

:)
 
Innocent until guilty etc

Great thread, this.

In a previous life I was skipper of various grey-navy vessels, including latterly the carrier Invincible. On one occasion in that ship we entered the western Solent via Hurst Narrows on a Sunday morning, just as the racing fleet tacked out towards The Needles. Various well-trained officers suggested five short blasts, reducing speed, altering course etc.

As CO I took responsibility for doing none of these things. "Yachting folk" - I said - "are excellent judges of time, space and manoeuvring room; we will stand-on, they will tack clear." So we did; and so they did.

Masts passed by on either hand, hulls and crews obscured by the flight-deck, wind gear twirling below our feet. We passed through unscathed and arrived off Yarmouth in time to put the RIB in for the Sunday papers (55 News of the World, 1 Observer).

I would always recommend the navy to avoid being officious; after all Nelson managed to beat the French without taking them to court.
 
Greenwichman said:
Great thread, this.



As CO I took responsibility for doing none of these things. "Yachting folk" - I said - "are excellent judges of time, space and manoeuvring room; we will stand-on, they will tack clear." So we did; and so they did.

Masts passed by on either hand, hulls and crews obscured by the flight-deck, wind gear twirling below our feet. We passed through unscathed and arrived off Yarmouth in time to put the RIB in for the Sunday papers (55 News of the World, 1 Observer).
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Well what racer in his right mind would want to get too close to a dirty big moving target windshadow like that.
 
Greenwichman said:
As CO I took responsibility for doing none of these things. "Yachting folk" - I said - "are excellent judges of time, space and manoeuvring room; we will stand-on, they will tack clear." So we did; and so they did. .
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That was a pragmatic and sensible judgement, which I applaud. However, if one of those yachts had ended up underneath your bows, would you have been in some difficulty explaining the absence of avoiding action?
 
Greenwichman said:
In a previous life I was skipper of various grey-navy vessels, including latterly the carrier Invincible. On one occasion in that ship we entered the western Solent via Hurst Narrows on a Sunday morning, just as the racing fleet tacked out towards The Needles. Various well-trained officers suggested five short blasts, reducing speed, altering course etc.

As CO I took responsibility for doing none of these things. "Yachting folk" - I said - "are excellent judges of time, space and manoeuvring room; we will stand-on, they will tack clear." So we did; and so they did.

Masts passed by on either hand, hulls and crews obscured by the flight-deck, wind gear twirling below our feet. We passed through unscathed and arrived off Yarmouth in time to put the RIB in for the Sunday papers (55 News of the World, 1 Observer).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately in the world today they also have to consider the remote possibility of one yacht not tacking but sailing into the side of her and detonating a ton or so of explosives in a suicide attack.
 
timbartlett said:
Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear.
The point is that every time someone writes something like:




it is another small but significant step away from democracy and the rule of law. We already live in a bureacracy, (rather than a democracy) in which the majority of our formal laws are created by unelected and unnaccountable civil servants to suit their own interests.
Those laws are interpreted (or more often misinterpreted) by other civil servants and by the poilce, again in their own interests.
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'

Well, as the UK finally got themselves a Pirate Party as well, you perhaps ought to consider becoming a member. ;)
 
I understand this morning from a source close to the centre of the incident that the case has been to court, and the yachtsman has chosen to contest the case, which will be heard in the near future.
 
sarabande said:
I understand this morning from a source close to the centre of the incident that the case has been to court, and the yachtsman has chosen to contest the case, which will be heard in the near future.
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Magistrates or crown?
 
Not as common now as it used to be. Most cross channel ferries used to go out through the Needles, iirc, but that was in the days when they started out from Southampton, rather than Pompey.

I bet they lined up carefully for the Needles Channel :D
 
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