Yacht size and licence requirements - UK?

H35

H35

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I am situated in Norway and NOT in the position to buy a large yacht... However, I met a nice chap from the UK on the docks the other day. He was solo sailing in a nice 52 ft yacht. Now here in Norway it is required to hold an extended licence for any boat more than 15 meters (50 ft) lenght. And the next size limit is then 24 meters, which is only legal for holders of a professional licence.
This chap told me that he could legally operate his UK registered yacht without any special licence. If this is correct, he can certainly do so in Norway as well, as long as his yacht is registered in the UK.

What are the licence requirements for non-commercial boats/yachts in the UK of varying sizes?
 
Essentially there are NO licensing requirements for leisure boat owners in the UK, nor is there are requirement to register a boat as long as it is only operated in UK waters.
To go overseas the boat must be registered on one of the two licensing schemes, but no further requirement for the owner.

There are qualifications available through the RYA which are advisable perhaps but there is no compulsion. Only if you are using the boat for commercial purposes such as charter or training is there any licensing requirement.
 
Others will give you chapter and verse, but we in the UK are very relaxed about this sort of thing providing the boat is for private use - very different for commercial use when money is changing hands.

Not even insurance is compulsory, although many marinas and harbours require a minimum of 3rd party cover. No compulsory survey requirements either.

Basically, you can go and buy quite a big boat, power or sail, and sail it away, even if you have never stepped on-board a boat before.
 
Leighb said:
Essentially there are NO licensing requirements for leisure boat owners in the UK, nor is there are requirement to register a boat as long as it is only operated in UK waters.
To go overseas the boat must be registered on one of the two licensing schemes, but no further requirement for the owner.

There are qualifications available through the RYA which are advisable perhaps but there is no compulsion. Only if you are using the boat for commercial purposes such as charter or training is there any licensing requirement.
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How completely opposite from the German way, ha ha!!
So I can legally register a 90 footer in the UK, and enjoy. Good to know if they call from the lottery...
 
H35 said:
So I can legally register a 90 footer in the UK, and enjoy. Good to know if they call from the lottery...
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You wouldn't want to register it here as there would be tax implications. But a lot of our ex- (and not so ex-) colonies offer a 'flag of convenience' to rich people so you can avoid both taxes and regulations.
 
H35 said:
I am situated in Norway and NOT in the position to buy a large yacht... However, I met a nice chap from the UK on the docks the other day. He was solo sailing in a nice 52 ft yacht. Now here in Norway it is required to hold an extended licence for any boat more than 15 meters (50 ft) lenght. And the next size limit is then 24 meters, which is only legal for holders of a professional licence.
This chap told me that he could legally operate his UK registered yacht without any special licence. If this is correct, he can certainly do so in Norway as well, as long as his yacht is registered in the UK.

What are the licence requirements for non-commercial boats/yachts in the UK of varying sizes?
Click to expand...

Large yachts, might, need to advise some harbour authorities when entering their area. Just common sense really, in case any commercial stuff moving in/out.
 
H35 said:
This chap told me that he could legally operate his UK registered yacht without any special licence. If this is correct, he can certainly do so in Norway as well, as long as his yacht is registered in the UK.
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Yes and No

This is the bit that a lot of people get confused with and (wrongly) assume it is their given right.

There are a lot of countries that do NOT require licences, registrations, mandatory safety equipment, etc... This is valid in the country of flag AND underway in territorial waters of another country. The second you make port that country can (and some will) enforce local legislation. This usually does not happen...but CAN!

recreational boating regulation does NOT fall under EU law and is solely a matter for each country to decide on (trust me... I had to involve the EU comission on my case of non-recognized licences between EU countries)

Professional boating is fully regulated and applies to all EU countries...but not us.
 
As if we don't have taxes here in Norway? Ha ha!! ;)

Also, we have the following requirements:

Any boat
-Longer than 26ft
-motor larger than 10hp
-top speed more than 10 knots

Require you are older than 16 years.

If motor is larger than 25 hp, it also requires a theoretical test, "Båtførerprøven".

Next level is for boats over 15 meters, up to 24 meters. They require a licence called D5L - with even a practical test. This is more like an education, takes a month or two to finish.
 
Another side note regarding licences:

the ICC is not a licence... it is a "document" (a certificate as the name says) that represents an agreement between a few EU countries. It's a recommended thing to have if you will be sailing in one of the countries that signed the agreement (Resolution 40) and some countries that did not sign it may even accept it... but that's about it.
 
Cookie Jar said:
Another side note regarding licences:

the ICC is not a licence... it is a "document" (a certificate as the name says) that represents an agreement between a few EU countries. It's a recommended thing to have if you will be sailing in one of the countries that signed the agreement (Resolution 40) and some countries that did not sign it may even accept it... but that's about it.
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Nothing to do with the EU, it is a UN sponsored certificate - resolution 40 is a UN resolution. Good explanation of the background on the RYA site.
 
H35 said:
How completely opposite from the German way, ha ha!!
So I can legally register a 90 footer in the UK, and enjoy. Good to know if they call from the lottery...
Click to expand...

Not quite so easy as it sounds as you have to be UK resident (but not UK citizen) to use the simpler SSR registration and the Part 1 registration is restrictive and expensive.

However, you can understand why many Europeans do try to get their boats on the UK register - and how lucky we are in the UK not to have the unnecessary interference from government.

BTW there are generally no tax implications of having a boat on the British register except for some it may be a means of avoiding taxes at home, ass it was until recently in Greece.
 
Tranona said:
Nothing to do with the EU, it is a UN sponsored certificate.
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Absolutely correct... but only signed by countries within the EU (excluding Switzerland, but although not an EU member it always had special rights)


There is not one country outside of the EU that has signed it... and even 5 EU countries have deliberately rejected it. So, in the end, it is very much an "EU thing", that will not be valid anywhere else.

Here's the link to the actual resolution agreement:
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2011/sc3wp3/ECE-TRANS-SC3-147-Rev1e.pdf
 
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Cookie Jar said:
Absolutely correct... but only signed by countries within the EU (excluding Switzerland, but although not an EU member it always had special rights)


There is not one country outside of the EU that has signed it... and even 5 EU countries have deliberately rejected it. So, in the end, it is very much an "EU thing", that will not be valid anywhere else.
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Just because the countries that have signed are in the EU, does not make it an EU "thing" The main connection with Europe is that it grew from the CEVNI requirements. Many things that get labeled EU are in fact European and there is more to Europe than the EU.
 
Hi Tranona,

I get your point and what you're saying... but until a UN country (outside the EU) signes it, of course it makes it a EU "thing".
No country is obliged to comply if they have not signed it... and the current Status Quo is that it is an agreement that is not even standardized in the EU, much less in the UN. That is a fact.

For us, recreational boaters, what purpose does it suits us? Absolutely none.
Only (yet) another "arrangement" and red tape. Is the ICC issued by (any) government, where you would just pay a "stamping" fee and get it over with on an "adhoc" regime? The answer is NO.
No... the RYA "adhoc" has nothing of "adhoc"in it.

There is a lot more to Europe than the EU, for sure! I could spend hours writting about it.

I have 3 licences made in 3 different UN countries... 2 of them in the EU. None recognized by the other!
That was 3 times paying for it (in all levels, so in reality they were 9 -yes, nine- different types of licences).

UN/EU boating regulation? Pffffff
 
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Kelpie said:
I thought certain things kicked in at 300t and/or 24m LOA?
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Me too, though I'm very unsure of the details. Possibly just regulations about the boat rather than the skipper?

I just know that 78 feet (~24m) is a magical length in the large motorboat world, lots of boats clustered just below it to avoid triggering regulations.

One of Steve Dashew's FPBs is something like 85 feet in reality, but cheats the MCA measurement rule to be 23.9m officially.

Pete
 
From what I know (and this is portuguese legislation alone), the 24m is the legislated limit for a pleasure craft... this does not mean there are no pleasure crafts above 24m, it just means that the requirements are set "case by case". There is even a "mininum crew" stipulated by the authorities.

Other countries I do not know.
 
Cookie Jar said:
Hi Tranona,

I get your point and what you're saying... but until a UN country (outside the EU) signes it, of course it makes it a EU "thing".
No country is obliged to comply if they have not signed it... and the current Status Quo is that it is an agreement that is not even standardized in the EU, much less in the UN. That is a fact.

For us, recreational boaters, what purpose does it suits us? Absolutely none.
Only (yet) another "arrangement" and red tape. Is the ICC issued by (any) government, where you would just pay a "stamping" fee and get it over with on an "adhoc" regime? The answer is NO.
No... the RYA "adhoc" has nothing of "adhoc"in it.

There is a lot more to Europe than the EU, for sure! I could spend hours writting about it.

I have 3 licences made in 3 different UN countries... 2 of them in the EU. None recognized by the other!
That was 3 times paying for it (in all levels, so in reality they were 9 -yes, nine- different types of licences).

UN/EU boating regulation? Pffffff
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Not sure why you persist with claiming it is anything to do with the EU. It is individual STATES that sign the resolution, and recognise or not the certificate. If it were anything to do with the EU all states would have to comply.

You are also wrong in suggesting it is of no value to leisure boaters when exactly the opposite is the case. It was established specifically for leisure boaters to demonstrate their competence when chartering boats, mainly in the Inland waterways, but more recently also for seagoing bareboats charters. As such it is accepted by Greece and Croatia (neither signatories or Resolution 40) as evidence of competence to charter boats under their flag. It is also a requirement for many charter operators, and other countries such as France and Spain require it to operate certain boats , mainly power in their waters as an alternative to a licence from the user's home country.

The main market for the certificate is just such users and without it the charter operators would lose significant business.
 
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