Yacht Running COSTS ?

[Mr Cassandra]

There a lot of people frightening others on costs . I bought a Sunmagic 44 in 1996 and sailed her until sold 2017 and had exactly the same money for her . forgetting flights and food it never cost me more than £4000 pa .In 2017 I bought a First 45f5 from 1994 ,the boat was one owner in fantastic condition and the only thing I bought was a Raymarine chart plotter. I am very lucky as I do not pay for water or electricity for where I am most of the summer , last winter, I had a private mooring gifted to me,that comes with experience and local knowledge. hopefully the same again this winter ,in spring a €500 up and down with a month in a local yard own service filters and oil €100 , antifoul €300 and away again.

 

[crown22]

Maybe your boat is worth say £75K?Next year it might only be worth £65K.So one of the many costs of owning a boat is something that accountants call depreciation.And don't forget the loss of interest on the capital outlay.Say 2%.And what about the opportunity cost of doing jobs yourself instead of paying a professional?Maybe £10 per hour.I'm an accountant as well as boat owner by the way.Oh and I've just remembered that every time I spend fifty quid on the boat my wife insists on having fifty quid to spend on some useless piece of tat.

 

[Graham376]

Maybe your boat is worth say £75K?Next year it might only be worth £65K.So one of the many costs of owning a boat is something that accountants call depreciation.And don't forget the loss of interest on the capital outlay.Say 2%.And what about the opportunity cost of doing jobs yourself instead of paying a professional?Maybe £10 per hour.I'm an accountant as well as boat owner by the way.Oh and I've just remembered that every time I spend fifty quid on the boat my wife insists on having fifty quid to spend on some useless piece of tat.

Any hobby and most social activities cost money, do you consider loss of interest whenever you go on holiday or go to a restaurant or the cinema? Whilst interest rates are so low, better to spend money on new boat equipment now as inflation drives prices up far more than lost interest. We're on board for at least 6/12 and the annual costs of ownership are usually less than chartering for 2 - 3 weeks p.a. Obviously there's depreciation but not as much as with cars.

 

[NotBirdseye]

There a lot of people frightening others on costs . I bought a Sunmagic 44 in 1996 and sailed her until sold 2017 and had exactly the same money for her . forgetting flights and food it never cost me more than £4000 pa .In 2017 I bought a First 45f5 from 1994 ,the boat was one owner in fantastic condition and the only thing I bought was a Raymarine chart plotter. I am very lucky as I do not pay for water or electricity for where I am most of the summer , last winter, I had a private mooring gifted to me,that comes with experience and local knowledge. hopefully the same again this winter ,in spring a €500 up and down with a month in a local yard own service filters and oil €100 , antifoul €300 and away again.

...yeah except engine replacement costs and replacing teak decking XD.

It's definitely a matter of a boat will cost as much as you want to spend on it (from everything I've been reading). A lot of people aren't really that transparent with their costs either, sometimes for good reason, revealing the true cost to your partner might get you into some hot water. Others factor in the main things but conveniently forget things like the cost of hauling out, the cost of replacing that engine or all the minor little things. Other people have different considerations, so they'll factor in depreciation even though you're not interested in ever selling the boat or they might assume you want top of the line equipment when something basic just get you out would do.

I think it would be worth someone actually doing a mock up and publishing it for potential first time buyers (with a basic vs comfortable loadout) and their potential first and fifth year running costs.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

...yeah except engine replacement costs and replacing teak decking XD.

It's definitely a matter of a boat will cost as much as you want to spend on it (from everything I've been reading). A lot of people aren't really that transparent with their costs either, sometimes for good reason, revealing the true cost to your partner might get you into some hot water. Others factor in the main things but conveniently forget things like the cost of hauling out, the cost of replacing that engine or all the minor little things. Other people have different considerations, so they'll factor in depreciation even though you're not interested in ever selling the boat or they might assume you want top of the line equipment when something basic just get you out would do.

I think it would be worth someone actually doing a mock up and publishing it for potential first time buyers (with a basic vs comfortable loadout) and their potential first and fifth year running costs.

Well my Sun magic never needed an engine in the 21 years I owned her and as far as I know still doesn't .The new to me boat also didn't need any work on its engine ,if it did I would have bought someone else's.
I ran successful businesses an can appreciate costs and I don't need to hide anything from a wife. I seriously think that the boats that I have owned over the last 30 years have been extremely good value .As said,taking out food and diesel costs we are about €2500 pa .that's less than a two week charter in my part of the world.

 

[Zing]

I bought an eight year old boat nine years ago. I calculated recently that it cost me all in about 7% of the original cost per year. Depreciation is the killer cost, so an old boat will lose much less of this element of costs. A newer boat may have double those costs because of higher depreciation amounts.

 

[NotBirdseye]

I bought an eight year old boat nine years ago. I calculated recently that it cost me all in about 7% of the original cost per year. Depreciation is the killer cost, so an old boat will lose much less of this element of costs. A newer boat may have double those costs because of higher depreciation amounts.

No idea why people take into account depreciation (given that if you never sell the boat, you've lost nothing and there's no guarantee that the boat has depreciated in price either) and that's not a running cost it's an ownership cost.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Kek. Not unhelpful (I have a saved copy!). A key reason for depreciation accounting is for businesses when accounting for tax purposes, you can pay less tax on a depreciated asset in some places. I'd agree (wholeheartedly) with you that's not that useful when justifying expenditure on a more local level hence not seeing why people care about it so much, it's like they're already budding used boat salesmen already planning when they're going to sell the boat. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Zing]

No idea why people take into account depreciation (given that if you never sell the boat, you've lost nothing and there's no guarantee that the boat has depreciated in price either) and that's not a running cost it's an ownership cost.

If you plan to replace it every six or seven years or whatever, then you need to budget with an amount to give you the ability at the end of that time to get a six or seven year newer boat plus the value of your old boat. That amount is depreciation. There will be a bit on top for inflation too, which can be represented by the opportunity cost of the investment or the lost interest. That really is a cost of ownership too.

These capital costs are for a newish boat by far the biggest costs of ownership. It surely would be foolish to ignore your biggest costs. I suppose if this is going to be the last boat you ever will own and you plan to keep it until the very end then it’s different.

 

[Zing]

Kek. Not unhelpful (I have a saved copy!). A key reason for depreciation accounting is for businesses when accounting for tax purposes, you can pay less tax on a depreciated asset in some places. I'd agree (wholeheartedly) with you that's not that useful when justifying expenditure on a more local level hence not seeing why people care about it so much, it's like they're already budding used boat salesmen already planning when they're going to sell the boat. Makes no sense to me.

Boaters need more people with your kind of attitude. You may buy the boat that I will buy once you get tired of it. We thank you for your service to boating.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

The original Westerly Centaur was sold at around £1,600. What is the average price that a Centaur sells at these days?
Depreciation? I had a 1976 Centaur (CR1279) for fourteen years and I sold it for more than I had bought it. Yes, I did spend money on that boat but then I did enjoy sailing it for fourteen years.

 

[pvb]

The original Westerly Centaur was sold at around £1,600. What is the average price that a Centaur sells at these days?
Depreciation? I had a 1976 Centaur (CR1279) for fourteen years and I sold it for more than I had bought it. Yes, I did spend money on that boat but then I did enjoy sailing it for fourteen years.

Was it only £1600 at introduction? I bought a new Centaur (CR1487) in 76, no idea what it cost but I sold it in 77 for £9800.

Edit: According to this 1968 Westerly price list, a Centaur at introduction was well over £3000 if you wanted an engine in it - https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/9/9a/Centaur_pricelist_1968.pdf

 

[TSB240]

Your marina fees sound cheap enough to be interesting!

We're in the menai straits. A swinging mooring from CHT is about £1k, inlcuding harbour fees. Haul out for the winter, cradle rental and hardstanding and a relaunch are about another £1k, and Insurance and maintenance ... thats another £1k, or will be when I have finished putting the boat right from how we bought it.

I've not seen marina fees with winter haulout come in under 3k anywhere ... I'd be interested to know where you can get that for your £2k budget.

Your area .....Port Dinorwic mooring deal using sub let CHT mooring was a fixed £1500 per annum for any size of boat including winter storage, on shore or in dock and a water taxi service in normal lock operating hours. If you stay in dock over winter all marine growth falls off and a bit of a scrub might mean you only have to antifoul every two years. We have not fully recoated since buying the boat in 2013! But are Inner dock based at a cost of £2700pa for 9m. Includes winter lift out and hard storage if required. No insurance surcharge if in water over winter in dock.

 

[Dutch01527]

Costs last year

Club membership, pontoon, haul out, winter storage £800
Insurance £ 250
Professional marine engineer for jobs I can not do well £500

Buying new toys on eBay ( sails, anchor, windlass, ect,ect) £1000+

 

[[3889]]

Your marina fees sound cheap enough to be interesting!

We're in the menai straits. A swinging mooring from CHT is about £1k, inlcuding harbour fees. Haul out for the winter, cradle rental and hardstanding and a relaunch are about another £1k, and Insurance and maintenance ... thats another £1k, or will be when I have finished putting the boat right from how we bought it.

I've not seen marina fees with winter haulout come in under 3k anywhere ... I'd be interested to know where you can get that for your £2k budget.

36' on an un-serviced finger pontoon, free lifts and a month's storage ashore for maintenance during June to August, Passesport Escale giving free berthing in 150 European marinas including Southern UK, France and Spain, free electric bike loan: £1280 PA.
The summer haul out suits me as marinas are crazy busy in August and antifouling wearing shorts and a T shirt beats lying in freezing water next to the keel. Plus, with a dozen or so free marinas within 20 miles winter sailing is quite pleasant - 4 hour jaunts in relatively sheltered waters with heating at either end.
http://www.port-arzal-camoel.com/

 

[rszemeti]

Your area .....Port Dinorwic mooring deal using sub let CHT mooring was a fixed £1500 per annum for any size of boat including winter storage, on shore or in dock and a water taxi service in normal lock operating hours. If you stay in dock over winter all marine growth falls off and a bit of a scrub might mean you only have to antifoul every two years. We have not fully recoated since buying the boat in 2013! But are Inner dock based at a cost of £2700pa for 9m. Includes winter lift out and hard storage if required. No insurance surcharge if in water over winter in dock.

I did enquire a few times about the marina service, but they were full when I wanted a mooring. I've asked a few times since and *in theory* are on their waiting list, but I suspect they don't have one and have lost my number ...

The CHT mooring plus a haulout at Dinas is fine, I may look at the marina again when we don't need such an extended haulout for all the work we have to complete.

You should see our boat on the outer moorings, just opposite the dinghy club, "Encyte" ..

 

[rszemeti]

36' on an un-serviced finger pontoon, free lifts and a month's storage ashore for maintenance during June to August, Passesport Escale giving free berthing in 150 European marinas including Southern UK, France and Spain, free electric bike loan: £1280 PA.
The summer haul out suits me as marinas are crazy busy in August and antifouling wearing shorts and a T shirt beats lying in freezing water next to the keel. Plus, with a dozen or so free marinas within 20 miles winter sailing is quite pleasant - 4 hour jaunts in relatively sheltered waters with heating at either end.
http://www.port-arzal-camoel.com/

Ah France, a bit of a long drive from the Midlands for a weekend away though. Also, will be more problematic from next year, as if I moved my boat there, I would have to pay VAT again.

 

[chrisgee]

Thanks for all your replies - very interesting and of course quite a lot of variations as we all want something different in our Sailing -----that is why it is such a great hobby,,
Chris G