Yacht Justice Sinks

[Stemar]

Yes, Ken, but some can see the lessons to be learnt, while others are too clever to be told.

Somehow that doesn't seem to read right.

It reads pretty OK to me.

Of course I'd never have that problem - I can read a chart in my nice warm living room & I'd be more careful... Yeh, right.

Apart from things like an Atlantic storm and a freak wave, it seems to me that just about every accident - be it fatality or gel-coat scratch - starts with a cock-up, more often it takes a whole series of them to get to a mayday. To my mind it behoves all of us to have a good dose of humility facing the sea and the human tendancy to get it wrong.

There but for the grace of God... Maybe not for that exact situation, but for something similar. If I can glean one little thing from someone else's misfortune, it'll make me that little bit safer at sea. It's cheaper than making my own mistakes!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Can't believe this thread is nearing centurion status.

Man takes deep boat through shallow water.

Crash. Bang. Wallop.

End of story.

Quite - Silly Man

 

[Sailfree]

Insurance Payouts

Bit of Fred Drift but wasn't there a newish boat with an inexperienced couple on board that went into the rocks along the S coast when the boyfriend left the girl in charge a few years back.

Not sure of the outcome but IIRC the insurance refused to pay out in that case due to inexperience/gross negligence. If my memory is correct it implies that Insurance will not always cover you for every eventuality.

Can anyone confirm the facts of the previous case? I hope for the owners benefit it has no relevance to this event. As another said "there but for the grace of god go I" and yes my keel has felt the Bramble Bank when we first got a big boat SWMBO had the helm and I thought she was in charge but I quickly learnt that's only while there are no problems then I'm in charge and ergo its my fault!!

 

[dt4134]

Bit of Fred Drift but wasn't there a newish boat with an inexperienced couple on board that went into the rocks along the S coast when the boyfriend left the girl in charge a few years back.

Not sure of the outcome but IIRC the insurance refused to pay out in that case due to inexperience/gross negligence. If my memory is correct it implies that Insurance will not always cover you for every eventuality.

The version I heard was that in that particular case the insurance company had stipulated the owner always had an experienced crew member on board, because of the owner's inexperience and that because he didn't at the time he bumped into Dorset they wouldn't pay out.

 

[dunedin]

I don't know the location. And it clearly was a major c**k up.

But I put my hand up as having previously misread tide tables when tired and/or cold - got the wrong month or the wrong day and thought the tide was high but in fact low or vice versa. Caused private embarrassment on that instance rather than lost boat.

But, the point is as others have said - lets leave the criticism to the official report and/or by those on the forum who have never screwed up (but perhaps been lucky to get away with it)

 

[libertyman]

If I remember correctly the insurer of the Benny that went on the rocks at St Albans Head was Admiral. if you look at the policy wording on their website they are very explicit that they may refuse to pay if the yacht is not properly crewed. So the question is not just whether this was an insured peril but what conditions are applied by the insurers and do they have any scope to claim contributory negligence? (i'm not saying Justice wasn't properly crewed, but there may be conditions in the policy).

I make no judgement on the rights and wrongs of this case, things happen and I have had my own share of "there but for the grace" moments - that is how we learn isn't it?

 

[30boat]

I don't know the location. And it clearly was a major c**k up.

But I put my hand up as having previously misread tide tables when tired and/or cold - got the wrong month or the wrong day and thought the tide was high but in fact low or vice versa. Caused private embarrassment on that instance rather than lost boat.

But, the point is as others have said - lets leave the criticism to the official report and/or by those on the forum who have never screwed up (but perhaps been lucky to get away with it)

I probably would have taken the outside route but who am I to talk?Once arriving in Porto Santo at night and tired I didn't take the trouble to sail an extra two miles around a group of buoys and instead relied on my ability to spot them against the shore lights.Yes,I motored straight into one and it was a huge buoy.Broke the stem fitting right off.

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

Bit of Fred Drift but wasn't there a newish boat with an inexperienced couple on board that went into the rocks along the S coast when the boyfriend left the girl in charge a few years back.

Not sure of the outcome but IIRC the insurance refused to pay out in that case due to inexperience/gross negligence. If my memory is correct it implies that Insurance will not always cover you for every eventuality.

Can anyone confirm the facts of the previous case? I hope for the owners benefit it has no relevance to this event. As another said "there but for the grace of god go I" and yes my keel has felt the Bramble Bank when we first got a big boat SWMBO had the helm and I thought she was in charge but I quickly learnt that's only while there are no problems then I'm in charge and ergo its my fault!!

Mmmm, interesting post Sailorman! Perhaps things are not as clear cut as you had me think.

 

[sailorman]

Mmmm, interesting post Sailorman! Perhaps things are not as clear cut as you had me think.

Me Im Innocent

 

[Sans Bateau]

Mmmm, interesting post Sailorman! Perhaps things are not as clear cut as you had me think.

The boat was a newish Beneteau 40ft (?) and ran onto rocks between Lulworth and Poole, the skipper and err 'crew' were down below at the time. When his pictures appeared in the press his wife was a little surprised to hear that it was her husbands girlfriend that was the crew, first she had heard about it!!!

Its true there was an insurance issue, probably a matrimonial issue too!

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

Me Im Innocent

Short term memory loss eh?

 

[misterg]

Mmmm, interesting post Sailfree! Perhaps things are not as clear cut as you had me think.

Have a look at this one in 2003 (Two sailors who were paid £50 each to deliver a Fairline to its owner were ordered to pay £220,000 in damages after sinking it.)

Investigations later revealed that the boat's on-board navigation equipment had malfunctioned in the heavy swell.

Despite this, insurers claimed the collision was caused by negligence and refused to replace it.

Sorry to perpetuate the thread drift

Andy

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

Have a look at this one in 2003 (Two sailors who were paid £50 each to deliver a Fairline to its owner were ordered to pay £220,000 in damages after sinking it.)

Investigations later revealed that the boat's on-board navigation equipment had malfunctioned in the heavy swell.

Despite this, insurers claimed the collision was caused by negligence and refused to replace it.

Sorry to perpetuate the thread drift

Andy

Very interesting, but who is Sailfree?

 

[misterg]

Very interesting, but who is Sailfree?

You quoted him/her/it in post #108, but appeared to attribute the quote to sailorman



Andy

 

[sailorman]

You quoted him/her/it in post #108, but appeared to attribute the quote to sailorman



Andy

see#109

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

You quoted him/her/it in post #108, but appeared to attribute the quote to sailorman



Andy

Ok, understand now. I was drawing Sailorman's attention to the post. I had a discussion earlier in the thread with Sailorman who assured me that the insurance company would pay out, no matter what!

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

Why, it was a simple cock-up.
if you crash your car & its your fault they pay.
as long as its not fraudulent no prob
whats your angle then

This is Sailorman's point of view.... which seems slightly at odds with some other posts.

 

[sailorman]

This is Sailorman's point of view.... which seems slightly at odds with some other posts.

[as long as its not fraudulent no prob]
the Chap in the Benny Blobby was having a leg over, nobody on watch & uninsured as he had a boat he wasnt insured to take out by himself.

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

[as long as its not fraudulent no prob]
the Chap in the Benny Blobby was having a leg over, nobody on watch & uninsured as he had a boat he wasnt insured to take out by himself.

What about the negligence angle then?


NEGLIGENCE - The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community.

 

[savageseadog]

What about the negligence angle then?


NEGLIGENCE - The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community.

Negligence is usually covered but if you add the word wilful to the definition of negligence then you have gross negligence which the insurance policy may not cover.