yacht categories.. and gib sea 33, comments please

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yelbis

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how can i find out the category of certain yachts, and what exactly they mean.
Also i have been looking at a gib sea 33 2004 and a bav 34 2001. I am trying to decide what to buy, although this post will most likely have conflicting answers, however, i want a safe boat that will look after my family should i get caught out, have a decent size engine, have modern necessities for the wife and not be too old so that i am always fixing things.
And also have good performance that is easy short handed.
 
I have an older Gib'sea 302, which I'm very happy with. I also regularly sail a Bav 34 which while roomy & comfortable is nowhere near as enjoyable to sail.

Try the Gibsea Association for more on the 33. They are

Here
 
Early Gibseas were built solidly and by reputation sail quite well for a AWB. Gibsea were aquired by Dufour and their boats were designed to compete at the cheaper end of the production market( I think about 1999 onwards).

I can't answer your question but suspect both boats are similar in quality and market segment they were designed for. I think many on here would recommend both boats for fair weather sailing but not blue water.

I would ask a number of Surveyors their opinions and try charter companies as its the charter market that discovers any boats weakness before the general public.

Good Luck
 
Get and sail both yourself, charter would be ideal. So long as you respect the fact that both will have similar restrictions in capability, the rest is down to choice.

Then if there is little difference in them, it is down to the best deal/boat load of kit you can buy for your money.
 
Thanks for the replies. so at what level do yachts get blue water classification. Also ETAP owner, please clarify restrictions in capability.
 
Both boats and many others similar will be great for cruising around with your family in good summer weather. You should be quite safe crossing the channel, after doing the normal weather analysis. Only you can decide at what point the boat reaches its limitations. That will come as you learn what conditions it can handle.

If you where planing sailing long term off shore or in very heavy weather then it would'nt work.
 
Not that easy, mister.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies. so at what level do yachts get blue water classification.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK - I suspect we're into 'can of worms' time here. I think you're referring to Recreational Craft Directive categories, which is a deep and meaningless load of appaling Beuro think about what makes a yacht safe more than x hours from shelter.

Many, self included, think this load of old tosh is not worth the load of old tosh it's written on. Sure, the sentiment may have been laudable, but the implementation was abysmal. 112 pages of guff about it are available here.

Many think it was just a stitch up by the big boat builders to let them move away from classification society standards to something much less onerous, and self examined.

Anyway for what little it's worth, you're looking for an RCD category A classification, which just about every yot with a lid over 30 feet long gets anyway. It is NOT a measure of how seaworthy, comfortable or safe the boat is in a real blow. although you can least you can be sure that the cockpit drains are of the approved size. But not that the cockpit won't fill with water every time a big wave comes up from astern.
 
Re: Not that easy, mister.

I completely agree with TK. Both these boats will be RCD Category A (Ocean) but I would recommend neither for ocean crossing. Both might be capably of it with the right equipment, weather and crew but it is not what they are for.

They are good coastal and offshore cruisers with cross Channel potential. In-harbour comfort is more important than overnight passage making though the Bavaria is not too badly arranged for that as well.

These two boats are very different in style which is a matter for you to decide on. From the point of view of strength and durability there is probably not much to choose between the two.
 
Sorry if this is an unhelpful digression, but it strikes me that this is an excellent example of what is wrong with the whole Recreational Craft Directive philosophy.

Now I can understand that in some ways, such as encouraging manufacturers to have decent size cockpit drains or whatever, the regulation can have positive effects on boatbuilding practise. But there is a danger that buyers of boats not unreasonably assume that it provides a guide to the suitability of a boat for offshore sailing.

It seems to me that it would have been better if the classification system, rather than implying that a Category A yacht is a better choice for offshore than a Category B yacht, which it may well not be, had been worded in some other way, in the same way that the fact that a yacht is built to Lloyds A1 or whatever implies nothing about how well she sails.

eg. the system could have awarded different categories for specific features: "X yacht has a Category C for stability but carries Category A safety equipment, and has been built to Category B quality specification. Unfortunately, she sails like a cow, the mast is held up by chicken wire and she shouldn't be taken beyond the River Thames"

Perhaps the drafters of EU directives should also be given Category classifications according to how dangerously dumb they are?
 
[ QUOTE ]
i want a safe boat that will look after my family should i get caught out

[/ QUOTE ] Nearly all boats will do that, if you know how to handle the boat. The people on board will normally bottle out before the boat does.
You can only get 'caught out' if you are intending longish say >4 day nonstop passages or you can't understand a weather forecast.
[ QUOTE ]
have a decent size engine

[/ QUOTE ] Doesn't matter what size the engine is if you don't maintain it or can't fix basic problems while at sea.
[ QUOTE ]
also have good performance that is easy short handed

[/ QUOTE ] Ah! Do you mean - will lean over a bit when the wife isn't on board /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The two best boats made by Gibsea IMHO were the 96 Master and the 352 Master. I have the 96 'cos the rear quarter berth is longer.

I've been caught out in a force 11 in my old 84 and she popped around quite happily dodging breaking wave crests and sailing comfortably under fully reefed mainsil only. I've been out in gales in my 96 and raced a charter 96 in a gale in the baltic where she coped perfectly with the short choppy seas.

Lots of people comment on how dry the cockpit is in a blow
the only problem with the 96 is they are difficult to get hold of. We took three years of being pipped to the post before we finally got Vitality - and then we only beat the competition by five minutes!!

The great advantage is that a good one will only set you back about £40k and leave lots over for an update.

The 96 is cat 1 i.e. up to 150 miles offshore - not ocean crossing which is cat O as I remember.

Have fun looking and don't settle for something almost good enough if it'll take too much to adapt to you.

Fair winds
ken
 
Forget about the RCD..it is a blunt tool with too many caveats, as the above posts indicate. Blag a sail on some and see how YOU feel about their handling. I chose mine SO32 when I realised my daughter, nine, could make a decent fist of steering in 12 kts of wind whilst I dark a cuppa.
The Bav has lots of room but is uninspiring to sail. The Gib will sail a bit better but the helm is set way too far aft for my tastes, however you may find that a plus point. I totally agree about offshore capability, these sort
 
Re: Not that easy, mister.

[ QUOTE ]
Both might be capably of it with the right equipment, weather and crew but it is not what they are for.


[/ QUOTE ] but . . . many ocean crossings have been made by boats which were not designed for that purpose.

In fact, if we look at the total market versus the number of boats that cross oceans then in truth NONE of them are strictly made solely for that purpose. Too small a market.

- Nick
 
Don't know about the Bav 34 ... but we had a Sunsail Gib33 for a week in 2002. I didn't find it as rewarding to sail as the S.O 34.2 we had in the previous year. It also had some annouying features, can't remember them all. Some may have been down to the actual yacht (stretchy main sheet made it difficult to keep the head of the main at the top of the mast + lots of vibes from the sail drive) others were poor design (boom fell away to leeward because of the silly mainsheet arrangement on the coachroof + couldn't empty the shower tray w/o sitting a heavy crew member on the gunwhale + helm seat was a pain) Having said that it coped with a day of force 6 better than the crew and we won the Flotilla race, crossing the line ahead of a 411 with a very serious crew. At the time that was based almost exclusively on Laser racing techniques.

Would I buy one as a family cruiser? .... eeeerrrr, yes I think so.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I've been caught out in a force 11 in my old 84 and she popped around quite happily

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you refering to a Gib'sea 84 I have one, and been out in winds of no more than 7/8, however I read that they can become skittish if it gets any stronger. Your account is reassuring
 
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