Xc dismasting

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I'm wondering if anyone has general or specific observations on this incident in 2017 where a purportedly 'blue water' capable boat was dismasted in relatively moderate conditions off Selsey Bill. I do have a bit of an interest in this and would be grateful for any insights, speculative or based on first hand knowledge. The standing rigging was rod and 7 years old , used for cruising the Channel and Atlantic Europe.
 
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Quiddle said:
I'm wondering if anyone has general or specific observations on this incident in 2017 where a purportedly 'blue water' capable boat was dismasted in relatively moderate conditions off Selsey Bill. I do have a bit of an interest in this and would be grateful for any insights, speculative or based on first hand knowledge. The standing rigging was rod and 7 years old , used for cruising the Channel and Atlantic Europe.
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Insufficient info here to say anything specific, but in general nitronic 50 rod is a good product, especially suited to discontinuous setups. The downside is that it requires proper maintenance which unlike -- standard wire -- almost inevitably requires the mast always to regularly come out with the intensity of inspection extending to more than just careful visual.

For this reason, about 6 years is the generally recommended max life, although long distance cruisers or racers may require sooner depending on use.

If you're considering it, be careful though, synthetics are advancing fast and will probably kill it in the not too distant future.
 
Quiddle said:
I'm wondering if anyone has general or specific observations on this incident in 2017 where a purportedly 'blue water' capable boat was dismasted in relatively moderate conditions off Selsey Bill. I do have a bit of an interest in this and would be grateful for any insights, speculative or based on first hand knowledge. The standing rigging was rod and 7 years old , used for cruising the Channel and Atlantic Europe.
Click to expand...

Insufficient info about this case to say anything specific, but in general nitronic 50 rod is a great product, especially suitable for discontinuous setups. The downside is that it requires a maintenance schedule, which unlike -- standard wire -- requires the mast always to regularly come out and with an intensity of inspection extending to more than just a careful visual.

For this reason, about 6 years is the generally recommended max life, although long distance cruisers or racers may require sooner depending on use.

If you're considering it, be careful though, synthetics are advancing fast and will probably kill rod in the not too distant future.
 
As above

Insufficient information to pass any comment.

I too would be interested (and I am sure - so would others) - if you are able to glean anything specific.

Jonathan
 
Thanks for the info on the lifespan of rod, a little disturbing. I was hoping for a slightly more disinterested view than might be offered by the owner. The boat is currently for sale.
 
dom said:
Insufficient info about this case to say anything specific, but in general nitronic 50 rod is a great product, especially suitable for discontinuous setups. The downside is that it requires a maintenance schedule, which unlike -- standard wire -- requires the mast always to regularly come out and with an intensity of inspection extending to more than just a careful visual.

For this reason, about 6 years is the generally recommended max life, although long distance cruisers or racers may require sooner depending on use.

If you're considering it, be careful though, synthetics are advancing fast and will probably kill rod in the not too distant future.
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Dom
I have discontinuous rod on my 15 year old cruising yacht. This winter I have been worrying about renewal because of its age.
Where does your "generally recommended max life" come from? Rigging suppliers are of course going to be cautious, and I have been unable to persuade my insurance company to provide any statistics on rod rig failures. (They do not have a specified schedule for replacement).
Peter
 
Resolution said:
Dom
I have discontinuous rod on my 15 year old cruising yacht. This winter I have been worrying about renewal because of its age.
Where does your "generally recommended max life" come from? Rigging suppliers are of course going to be cautious, and I have been unable to persuade my insurance company to provide any statistics on rod rig failures. (They do not have a specified schedule for replacement).
Peter
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I found this article useful
 
Resolution said:
Dom
I have discontinuous rod on my 15 year old cruising yacht. This winter I have been worrying about renewal because of its age.
Where does your "generally recommended max life" come from? Rigging suppliers are of course going to be cautious, and I have been unable to persuade my insurance company to provide any statistics on rod rig failures. (They do not have a specified schedule for replacement).
Peter
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Navtec recommends:

"As a general rule, Navtec recommends complete Level C inspection for Category I & IIboats (see Mast System Inspection Categories Section), of mast and rigging systems aftera maximum of 40,000 to 60,000 sailing miles or 6 years, whichever comes first. Thiscomprehensive maintenance schedule would include inspection of all the rod heads andend fittings. If any of the heads are cracked or worn, the rod must be re-headed."
https://pdf.nauticexpo.com/pdf/navtec/rigging-service-guidelines/21929-29180.html​

As I understand it, the rods per se should last 20 years or so, but the heads should really be dye tested fairly soon. And that'll require the mast out.

And I think you're in warm salty seas which would prioritise this a bit.

At least it's winter!
 
Here a few thoughts on this mast failure.
The mast is hanging over starboard side in photo, so best guess is a failure on port side not front or back.
Normal problem is at spreader, either a failure in mast because of previous damage or failure in rig.
Rod is stronger than wire on a like for like size and lasts longer.
The reason for failure on the head of a rod is directly linked to how many times it has been loaded and unloaded , time and distance sailed are only indicators.
The mast of a yacht shipped with mast up ,by sea as deck cargo on a large ship will most likely have far more loading than a mast that sails the same distance.
A yacht in a marina with swell throwing the boat about will suffer more than same yacht cruising a calm sea.
A rig that has not been maintained and kept tight will suffer.
Navtec have passed on or you could say terminated.
Warm salty sea will accelerate corrosion and electrolysis, both can lead to premature mast failure, however rod heads should not suffer from either of these.
Masts are like trees in a forest occasionally the fall down, the question is do they make any noise if no one is about.
 
Quiddle, Dom,
Many thanks for those links. Very clear cut. Looks like I will have to have the mast out and replace the heads and turnbuckles etc. Not as easy to arrange when you are miles away from the boat - almost wish I was back in the Hamble!
Peter
 
dunedin said:
I guess that particular boat is likely to have recent rigging !
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It has, and sails, but disregarding other hidden damage from the dismasting, it is not really suitable for other reasons, an electric cooker not being the least of them. I'm really interested in whether rig failure is a generic problem as I have seen another relatively young boat which has been re-rigged, albeit before the mast fell down.
 
Resolution said:
Quiddle, Dom,
Many thanks for those links. Very clear cut. Looks like I will have to have the mast out and replace the heads and turnbuckles etc. Not as easy to arrange when you are miles away from the boat - almost wish I was back in the Hamble!
Peter
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Hmm, so do I in a way; just make sure the yard/riggers you assign this job to know rod back to front.

If not, and I believe this quite strongly, I’d hold for now. This is quite a specialist field and confidence in the engineers’ ability and procedural conformity is key.

Pm me if you wish and I’ll give you some contacts at HYS with whom you can chat this through.
 
dom said:
Hmm, so do I in a way; just make sure the yard/riggers you assign this job to know rod back to front.

If not, and I believe this quite strongly, I’d hold for now. This is quite a specialist field and confidence in the engineers’ ability and procedural conformity is key.

Pm me if you wish and I’ll give you some contacts at HYS with whom you can chat this through.
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Dom, do you know if re-rigging could be accomplished without mast removal on a keel stepped rig?
 
Quiddle said:
Dom, do you know if re-rigging could be accomplished without mast removal on a keel stepped rig?
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Never heard of that in practice, but I guess it could be done if circumstances required. Subject, that is, to one of those circumstances not being price, for I can see the extra man hours comfortably cancelling the saved boatyard costs, even on a fairly standard 2-spreader discontinuous setup.

Ultimately a re-rig is really much better done ashore and preferable inside during inclement weather. Everything can be carefully inspected with second opinions sought as necessary. New equipment can be attached and inspected in a shop environment and any remedial work such as spreader-roots or whatever can be seamlessly addressed.

Where are you thinking of doing the work?
 
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