Wykeham-Martin not rolling jib in stronger winds

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harvey

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Help please!! The boat is a Tamarisk 29 based on the old Falmouth Bay oyster dredgers you see racing down that way. The w/m gear rolls the jib nicely if the wind isn't strong but if it pipes up then the tack rolls but the head doesn't and I end up with a flapping bag which reminds me of a girl I used to go out with. This means that invariably above about a force 5 I have to drop the jib and I'm getting fed up with getting beaten up on the foredeck. Are they always like this? Do I perhaps have the halliard too loose but if I tighten it up then it'll make the top swivel even less likely to swivel. Anyone got the answer out there? It must be simple .... mustn't it?
Thanks
John
 
It's because it has no foil and so the forestay is twisting in strong winds. All you can do is to let the wind out of it before furling.
 
Hi!
If I've read you correctly (unlikely with me, sorry! Or you're just having us on!), and if you're referring to the proper Wykeham-Martin gear that we all used to love - or hate! - then as Twisterowner says, this was never meant to be a reefing system, the luff used to sag etc etc... it was only meant to help furl, or roll up the sail in one go... when you needed the sail stowed quickly (provided the furling line didn't break or jam at just the wrong moment - as Maurice Griffith used to write amusing stories about...!)
Happy sailing!
 
It might be worth checking the lay of the wire luff. Make sure you are rotating the drum in the direction that will tighten it rather than open it up. It could also be that your wire luff simply isn't stiff enough.

Classic Marine have a good article here
 
Also the wire (special less twisty wire?) is sewn in pre-twisted a bit, to allow for the progressive loss of turning effect further from the drum. It might be aging, or the stitching coming loose.
 
Just adding to the above - WM gear is furling gear not reefing gear. You cannot and should not try to reef with it. Reefing your jib involves hauling it in and replacing it with a smaller one.

You could get a "proper" alloy extruded luff and roller furling gear made up for the boat but it would look horrible, be impossible to stow and all the other gaffers would laugh at you.
 
Here is the answer I posted it some time ago now the link will take you to the page.
It does work well when you get the hang of it.
Click here.
Then scroll down to the post by old_salt I hope this helps
Cheers David.
If you have trouble reading the page let me know and I will type it out in full.
 
Thanks for that....I am talking about furling all in one go (or at least that's what I'd like to be able to do) I'm not confusing it with a modern foil based reefing system and yes, it is the old w/m gear that you've learnt to hate but I haven't quite yet. I can quite undersatnd why Marice Griffiths could pen a saga to this not to mention Des Sleightholme.
Thanks
John
 
What a lovely looking book and thanks very much for the link. If I'd wanted to reef I can see how that could work well but all I'm trying to do is furl the jib.
Thanks
John
 
Mariposa thank you for that article I shall go out and check it all once the fastnet storm is over. I shall check the lay-up of the wire as well since it is a new jib and therefore a new wire.
I can see now that Twistleowner may have posted something about me reefing as opposed to furling completely and this may have led others to deviate from my original question and give me reefing advice.
Anyway, thanks everyone for your input....it all helps with the learning curve!
John
 
[ QUOTE ]
I promise that I'm not trying to reef with it and I don't want to be laughed at any more than happens already

[/ QUOTE ]
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But thinking on, If I guess right, the sail gets blown out of its rolled up state as the wind increases? Now that I've re-read the original post, a couple of things come to mind. I get a bit of this on Cleone, so note to self for winter maintenance:

Most likely the luff wire is too flexible of too small a size, either its aged or the sail was made that way and its always done it but not mentioned by the previous owner. Remembers the wire has to have little twist along all its length for the WM gear to actually work. The head swivel should be nice and lubricated anyway, so this cannot be helped.

The other consideration is that the sail has lost it's shape and has developed a baggy bit up at the leach by the head of the sail, especially if the sail has done this a lot in the past, and the cloth will only stretch more, and the problem will get worse: new sail needed.

Finally, try and get the tension between the drum and the sheets in opposition as tight as you can to roll the sail up as tight as possible. The tighter the roll, the less prone the sail will be to flog out. It also helps to keep the luff at tight as possible when the sail is rolled, so if you anchor or moor up and slacken the bobstay off, bring the jib down on deck.

Hope this helps more than the last answer.



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I replaced the reefing gear on the jib of my Tamarisk 24 with WM at the start of this season. What I learned was that firstly the luff wire must be stiff enough to support WM gear, did you tell your sailmaker that it was WM that you were using to ensure it was stiff enough? Next thing is that it is vital to have an angle at the top swivel for the halyard - by this I mean you need to have the standing end of the halyard attached to the mast, led through a block at the top swivel and then an angle formed at the swivel between the parts of the halyard which goes back to another block on the mast before descernding deckward. Without this angle WM won't work as the swivel turns instead of swivelling. Next up is to have a WM gear which is bigger than suggested for the size of sail. I started with a size 2 and it was hard work when a bit of a blow came on, I changed to a size 3 and it improved no end.

I don't think WM will ever be as easy to furl a sail with as modern reefing gear in wind but if set up properly it should be possible (unless you leave it far too late) and when you're posing at the quayside it looks a million times better than reefing foils stuck on the forestay! Apart from anything else WM also lets you run in the bowsprit at a push if you need to - not too easy on my Tamarisk but possible.
 
Thanks Seagreen and John Champion. Plenty to think about now and I need to get out to the boat when the winds up and try a few things out. The sailmaker (of my new jib) assures me that the wire in the luff is up to snuff but I must check the angles thing and which way the wire lay-up runs...ie I tighten it when furling. I've a feeling that the blame is largely my own, in that I haven't tightened the halliard on the jib before trying to furl and I think that that will make the difference.
Thank you one and all
John
 
I was having a problem with a WM not furling when it had done previously. I checked the rollers spun freely and the lead to the furling line was fair. In the end I took the rollers apart, top and bottom to see if I could find a problem. The ball bearings in both were a bit black but seemed fine. I wiped them off anyway and re-greased and now it furls just fine!

If you can find some replacement ball bearing of the right size I would think that would be worthwhile too.

Oh, by the way, take it apart over a washing up bowl or similar or one of the blighters might get away...
 
Sounds as if your top swivel isn't swivelling properly. The brass W-M on the market aren't strong enough to take a big rig. Should you pull one in two it's quite dangerous trying to trap the tack of a foresail flapping about in the breeze with a brass cylinder on the end! OF
 
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