Wrong call?

Rum_Pirate

Rum_Pirate

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 Aug 2004
Messages
27,974
Location
A tiny Island, Caribbean
Visit site
QUESTION :

In a Round-the-Bouys Club race, there were two yachts heading for the windward mark on different tacks.

As they got very close to the mark when the yacht on the 'Port' tack shouted loud and clear "STARBOARD" and the yacht on the 'Starboard' tack tacked.

Much to the amusement of the yacht on the 'Port' tack.

This allowed the yacht on the 'Port' tack to get around the bouy first and resulted in it's winning.

So the question is are you allowed to make such a call and would a protest hold up?
 
Certainly if you call for mark room and you aren't entitled to it... There is no consequence even if the other boat gave you it incorrectly.
 
ShinyShoe said:
Certainly if you call for mark room and you aren't entitled to it... There is no consequence even if the other boat gave you it incorrectly.
Click to expand...
Completely wrong.
If you claim room, the other boat must give it and then may protest you.
 
Rum_Pirate said:
QUESTION :

In a Round-the-Bouys Club race, there were two yachts heading for the windward mark on different tacks.

As they got very close to the mark when the yacht on the 'Port' tack shouted loud and clear "STARBOARD" and the yacht on the 'Starboard' tack tacked.

Much to the amusement of the yacht on the 'Port' tack.

This allowed the yacht on the 'Port' tack to get around the bouy first and resulted in it's winning.

So the question is are you allowed to make such a call and would a protest hold up?
Click to expand...
Hails are mostly irrelevant.
If the boat on starboard is forced to alter course to clea the boat on port, the boat on port is generally in the wrong and likely to lose a protest.
Hailing nonsense could lead to a 'fair sailing' protest.
 
The Port tack boat should always give way when there is the room to do so. However both boats have an obligation to avoid an acident, the starboard boat did the right thing and should protest the port tack boat .

good luck
 
lw395 said:
Completely wrong.
If you claim room, the other boat must give it and then may protest you.
Click to expand...
You care to provide a current reference for that?

There is no obligation for boats on the same tack to hail for room, the obligation is on the outside boat the give the room. (Rule 18)

If room is needed to tack at an obstruction (Rule 20) the the hailed boat must provide room. The point being if you argue if room is needed might result in damage so give the room and sort it later.
 
ShinyShoe said:
You care to provide a current reference for that?

There is no obligation for boats on the same tack to hail for room, the obligation is on the outside boat the give the room. (Rule 18)

If room is needed to tack at an obstruction (Rule 20) the the hailed boat must provide room. The point being if you argue if room is needed might result in damage so give the room and sort it later.
Click to expand...
20.2 Responding
(a) After a boat hails, she shall give a hailed boat time to respond.
(b) A hailed boat shall respond even if the hail breaks rule 20.1.
(c) A hailed boat shall respond either by tacking as soon as
possible, or by immediately replying ‘You tack’ and then
giving the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her.
 
lw395 said:
20.2 Responding
(a) After a boat hails, she shall give a hailed boat time to respond.
(b) A hailed boat shall respond even if the hail breaks rule 20.1.
(c) A hailed boat shall respond either by tacking as soon as
possible, or by immediately replying ‘You tack’ and then
giving the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her.
Click to expand...
That's room at an obstruction
there is no call for mark room at a mark. But people do call. If you call, and call it wrong, there is no obligation to move. A mark is no an obstruction unless the SIs say it is an obstruction
 
ShinyShoe said:
That's room at an obstruction
there is no call for mark room at a mark. But people do call. If you call, and call it wrong, there is no obligation to move. A mark is no an obstruction unless the SIs say it is an obstruction
Click to expand...
Just to confuse things further, the port tack boat in OP didn't call for mark room either.

I would say it comes down to whether the starboard tack boat was forced to take avoiding action or merely chose to tack. If the former then I wonder whether starboard could argue in the protest hearing that they took early avoiding action given that port clearly had no idea what they were doing, as evidenced by not knowing which tack they were on.
 
RichardS said:
The fact that the word "deliberately" is used means that the rules recognise that there is an alternative to "deliberate". ;)

Richard
Click to expand...
Are you deliberately trying to be obtuse?

The ruling is clear. If you know you are on port, but call starboard, then you break rule 2. If protested and found "guilty" then the penalty for breaking rule 2 is either DSQ or DNE.

As an aside, the use of specific language in the RRS is often in order that in translation the meaning is the same. So that in an international event, 2 sailors using the rule book translated into different languages are playing the same game.
 
flaming said:
Are you deliberately trying to be obtuse?

The ruling is clear. If you know you are on port, but call starboard, then you break rule 2. If protested and found "guilty" then the penalty for breaking rule 2 is either DSQ or DNE.

As an aside, the use of specific language in the RRS is often in order that in translation the meaning is the same. So that in an international event, 2 sailors using the rule book translated into different languages are playing the same game.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not being obtuse.

The rule says "A boat that deliberately hails ‘Starboard’ when she knows she is on port tack has not acted fairly, and has broken rule 2".

It does not say "A boat that hails ‘Starboard’ when she is on port tack has not acted fairly, and has broken rule 2".

This strongly suggests to me that a helmsman who hails "Starboard" because he does not know, or has forgotten, which tack he is on, has not broken rule 2, even if the rest of the crew realise his mistake when the other boat unexpectedly tacks.

Do you have an alternative explanation? :)

Richard
 
RichardS said:
No, I'm not being obtuse.

The rule says "A boat that deliberately hails ‘Starboard’ when she knows she is on port tack has not acted fairly, and has broken rule 2".

It does not say "A boat that hails ‘Starboard’ when she is on port tack has not acted fairly, and has broken rule 2".

This strongly suggests to me that a helmsman who hails "Starboard" because he does not know, or has forgotten, which tack he is on, has not broken rule 2, even if the rest of the crew realise his mistake when the other boat unexpectedly tacks.

Do you have an alternative explanation? :)

Richard
Click to expand...

As I said, the ruling is clear, if you KNOW that you are on Port, but call Starboard then you break rule 2. Black and white.

Of course if it isn't done deliberately, then it would not be grounds to have broken rule 2. That being the rule about sportsmanship. But that has sweet FA to do with the OP as they were "highly amused" when S tacked out of the way, as such it is clear that this was deliberate, so is a breach of rule 2. You would not be "highly amused" if you thought yourself to be on Starboard to see the other boat tack, you'd expect it.

If you are an experienced sailor, then good luck arguing that you did not know or "forgot" when you get to the protest room. Especially if you are seen to be "highly amused".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top