Would you leave harbour in thick fog

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tangomoon

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With radar of course.

I wouldn't, but some have. Visibility down to less than half a mile some times less than 400 yards and forecast in for the day. Would you leave?
 
No I wouldn't. Having sailed in fog last year, fortunately following a friends boat that was equipped with Radar. I have now fitted a radar set to my boat, but I still feel that I wouldn't willingly go out in existing fog conditions. OK, if you get caught out there.

The forecast, at the time was fog patches, well it was a fog patch all the way from 1 mile off the Needels to 1 mile off Weymouth. Thank god for radar (as I think someone once said)

I remember hearing QHM Portsmouth once announcing that movement within the harbour was restricted to boats with Radar.
 
It depends on why you might need to leave. If there was a bad forecast for an exposed anchorage I might not have a lot of choice. If I was in a safe harbour & had no need to be elsewhere, then it is a different situation.

I have sailed in low vis, using DR only, (no modern aids in them days) despite strong & pretty unpredictable currents. But one does need to think defensively & minimise the risk of errors.
 
The warranty has run out on my radar. It could fail any day, so, errmm, no, not unless I was going out to try and save someone.
 
It would also depend upon where I was..... and where I was heading....

If leaving allowed me to creep along a 3m contour round into a safe harbour then I might..... if it meant crossing a busy shipping lane, and extended time in deep water, then i'd probably not....
 
It depends -
Forecast - both re the fog but also would you be on a lee shore etc?
Length of passage?
Likely traffic - small/seriously large?
Are you in a busy commercial harbour?
Can you work along bottom contours ie is there a reasonable gradient or is it all flat along your intended track which is hopeless hopeless for contour following?
How many crew for lookout - can you double up overnight for example?
Local conditions/patterns - there are locations where fog is prevalent and yet usually clear just around the headland?

There are many factors in the risk assessment and IMHO there are occasions when one can leave a harbour even without radar and in relative safety. I have done things in fog which I certainly wouldn't do again, but which have led me to think about the risks more analytically. Once came out of Brest in thick fog at midnight no radar on ebb. I wouldn't do that again! BUT did have marvellous moonlit tootle up Chenal du Four as fog cleared at St Mathieu.
 
Depends on circumstances. Friend of mine left small harbour in middle of the Swedish skerries to follow a wriggly path out to sea where conditions according to weather men were clear. It was pretty unlikely there would be any fast moving traffic in the skerries and he had a good plotter.
Localised fogs around the French coast are fairly frequent.
I think it can be defensible to get out to clearer air even without radar.
 
I have twice been on yachts - both with radar - where we left in fog, and navigated most of the day in 50 - 100 metres vis. I was not skipper/owner, but was on radar duty. Very interesting it was, especially on the West coast of Scotland seeing a target coming up astern doing 20 knots /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It was a big RIB, no radar and doing that speed in very poor vis, passed about 10 metres off on our port side.

Not sure I would have the confidence to do it in my own vessel, though, not that I have radar anyway.

I have also remembered an RYA Competent Crew course many years ago, the instructor left Lymington for Poole, in only about 2 boat lengths visibility, no radar then. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I thought he was pretty dotty I must say, but had not the experience to realise it was perhaps more than dotty.

Still we came to no harm, although we heard but never saw a ship coming in the West Solent not far off.
 
Depends on the circumsatnces and individual skill/knowledge.

I once watched a hanglider pilot prepare to jump off a hill in poor visibility, couldn't see the bottom of the hill. I asked him how he would tell which way up he was, he pointed to a small bubble compass on the 'A' frame. I thought it was madness, but he knew what he was doing and knew the terrain. I met him in a field at the bottom, I think a couple of others did the same, but not me.

Depends on circumstances and your attitude to risk and consequences I guess.

I probably wouldn't, but then I didn't jump off the hill either!
 
I have only once been in thick fog in the River leading up to Waterford.

I had no radar on the boat.

Can only say it was quite frightening, especially when a large cargo vessel emerged out of the fog 2oo yards away.

Now, despite having radar, I would wait until it cleared.

No point putting yourself in danger.

mj
 
Have a left Orwell a couple of times in thick fog to find good weather and good vis a mile off.

Once we had about 500m down at deck level but heard a container ship reporting to VTS zero vis. Obviously that was the situation 100m up at bridge level. A couple of folks came up on RT and pointed this out, he apologized and sent a lookup down.
 
Yeah, we got into 3 bad patches going over to Fecamp on Tuesday- that screen is a real comfort when you suddenly only have 100m all round. Thank goodness fog was all on the French side after the N-bound traffic- still twitchy tho as it's then all ways coastal vessels. I don't think any large target we acquired was doing less than 20kts, mind.
 
Would have said never - however needed to bring my acquisition from Faversham to Folkestone; at 6am could not see the other side of Oare Creek, let alone Faversham Creek. The last chance before son returned to Plymouth - he said let's do it and he was normally more careful than I - he'd borrowed a GPS and of course we had charts and excellent compass. Found out the GPS was U/S so we buoy hopped with buoys coming up 50 yards ahead on the nose, we were motoring - scarcely any wind, but sails deployed ,no leeway and the tidal current (double) dead astern. During the day vis. increased to 1/2 mile only vessel at sea we saw all day was a Seafrance Ferry 1 mile off Dover that took clear and timely avoiding action - we had radioed Dover Port Contol that we were passing south of harbour.
I'm amazed we did it and that it went so well.
 
Yes i would and have done many times over the years and i would not class my self as a skipper if i was afraid to go out in the fog.
 
Yes I would and I have. Areas have been Plymouth, Portsmouth, Cherbourg, and the Channel Islands.

1 I have a trusty first mate (my wife) and we take it in 30 minute turns to 'do weapons' (concentrate on the radar)

2 We know the radar well and have confidence in it

3 We have attended two radar courses and are happy to use it as a prime navigation tool when 'in sight' of land

4 We have practiced again and again in good vis and know how the settings change the pic for each range.

5 We cruise at 7 kts, with the radar set to the 3 mile range when at sea, or 1.5 mile range in 'crowded areas'.

6 At least every 5 minutes we examine the 1 and 6 mile ranges before reverting to the 3 mile.

Some conditions before we set off.

a The chart plotter must have been properly set up to reduce the concentration needed for piloting the boat.

b We have a back up GPS programmed identically, to act as a cross track checker.

c We drive from inside the boat so conditions are relaxed.

d The fog horn is signalling automatically.

e The crew is well briefed with duties including outside watch and tea (coffee) making etc.

f The Sea-Me is operating.

g Depending upon the location, we may do a securité broadcast.

h The CG knows what we are doing and where we are going. They are v helpful and can advise of contrary traffic.

The longest trips we have done in thick (I mean thick) fog are from Portsmouth to Cherbourg, leaving the fog about 10 miles before Cherbourg. Sark to Beaucette, and Guernsey to Cherbourg. Entering Cherbourg we couldn't even see the ends of the outer mole as we entered.

My concern would be if the radar was to fail. We are therefore fitting a second radar. If we did not intend to sail in fog, the single radar would suffice 'as a get me out trouble'.

OK - what flak will I get now?
 
None from me, but I expect some will come from the first mate along the lines of "you're not at work now, we're sailing for fun!"

The picture you paint is of a "professional" work based approach to leisure sailing, and with your background I can see where it comes from. But its still not a sensible approach in my view - what exactly is the point of taking the extra risk of sailing in thick fog when you dont have to do so? Its the difference between take off and landing a 707 in thick fog using automated systems and doing the same in a small single engined plane.

There are assumptions in your scenario too, and some are better than others. The coastguard cannot tell you of contrary traffic since in the main they dont know themselves. See-me is good but only operates on one radar band and can fail like any leisure standard electronics. Small boat radar does not pick everything up in my experience. Could go on but I wont.
 
Hi wotayottie. I can certainly understand your comments. A few points to consider...

As you rightly point out, my background comes to the fore and dictates how I operate.

When leaving a busy port such as Portsmouth or Plymouth, either QHM or Long Room have advised me of the local area traffic. By the way, when we crossed the Dover St at night two years ago, the CG very kindly gave us almost a running commentary on the traffic. Really useful.

Agreed that the Sea-Me only works on one frequency, but I have checked with other vessels and a radar test vessel (Faraday) that Play d'eau gives an excellent return with the Sea-Me on or off. The Sea-Me just makes it somewhat more of a concentrated blob!

The way I treat fog is like night when there's a likelyhood of nav lights not being on....
 
I wonder what the skippers of the Thames Sailing Barges (Engineless, no radio, no radar, no plotters, no GPS, no Sea Me) would have made of this thread. They ranged between Penzance, The Wash and the French Channel ports and occasionally even farther afield until the early '50s.
 
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