Would you buy a boat with missing history?

[ QUOTE ]
still you seem to have updated the rig ! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Did I??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Not intentionally anyway!
 
Throwing spanner in works ....

As some may know - I am about to truck my boat to Latvia .... boat is a mid 70's motor-sailer......

So on checking about doc's req'd .... answer was :

CMR This is a Customs Manifold \Release Doc that shows origin, sender, destination and receiver.

Copy of Registration This will be photocopy of SSR - showing that either sender or receiver are named on same.

Letter stating that Truck Co. and Driver can carry item across borders.

Isn't it interesting that no mention of VAT cert's, tax's, insurance etc. ?? Maybe this is something that someone will wake up to later ? But so far enquiries have brought forth only the above.

I already have a boat here that carries SSR .... again of mid 70's origin ... no-one has ever approached me about it etc.

But of course it's not France !!
 
Assess your worst case scenario - and use it as a negotiating point.

The only problems I know of with VAT have been Tristan Jones & Shane Acton being hit with megga charges (for them at that time) on return to the UK. Perhaps the problem lies mostly with our own beastly HM C&E not liking yachties - who obviuosly have more money than they do (at least in their eyes)
 
That's a bit worrying!

Ours is 1972 and has no history, no hull number, nothing! I have a hand-written receipt from the previous owner and that's the entirety of my "ship's papers"! I don't intend visiting foreign waters but I do sometimes wonder what I'd do if ever challenged!
 
None of my boats have ever come with any history apart from current bill of sale and SSR doc. As I operate in the more "mature" end of the market my main concern is whether it floats or not (and one didn't even do that /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)

I'd guess that at least 50% of boat owners aren't even aware of the VAT issue. I wouldn't if I didn't read this forum!
 
[ QUOTE ]
1996 which is pretty ancient by any measure.

[/ QUOTE ]
Gulp.
[ QUOTE ]
got in with a quick joke about the rig and age which I found amusing

[/ QUOTE ]
Just wish I understood it! I'll be trying to work it out for the rest of the day now...
 
[ QUOTE ]


Thats a very good point! its a GibSea but unfortunately I have been led to believe that the broker back then was a 'Caravella yachts', which has subsequently ceased trading. Could anybody confirm or deny that?



[/ QUOTE ]

I have a Gib'Sea also. Unfortunately, yes I can confirm that Carvella yachts ceased trading in the mid '90s. I believe the proprieter now owns a farm in Spain.
 
There is quite a lot of guidance for older yachts on the RYA web site. My boat was built in 1982 and I have no original invoice. I knew about VAT before I bought it but it did not put me off. I doubt many boats from the 80's meet the current requirements.
 
My boat was built in 1977.

If I was selling her and the buyer started getting jumpy about VAT certs and expect me to drop my price based on this I would lose the sale. I would personally rather sell it to someone else than fart about negotiating for something which makes seemingly zero difference in a boat of this age.

at 18 yo I would have the same attitude, the rules state, if the vessel was in the UK in 1992 then she is VAT exempt, why should I give myself a headache trying to source a document that does not and probably never existed. The company that built my boat folded many years ago, and you would want money off for that?

There is always great advice on here from people about squeezing the pips of the seller, yet one day you people will be the seller, can I buy your boat for £12 after taking all your advice, I think not.

To the originator, if you are really concerned walk away, don't waste the sellers time on an 18 year old boat, if this is a stumbling block this is not the boat for you, but you already know that don't you?
 
DogWatch,
Thanks for your opinions but it seems you have jumped to a couple of conclusions about me. This will be my first boat so, like any concientious person, I have read as much about the buying process as I can. Every publication I have read makes a big deal about VAT receipts and the France question. The official RYA guide even goes so far to state that "Arguably the yacht is only worth 100/117 of the asking price" If the VAT receipt is missing. I should also point out that your assertion that the boat is exempt if she was in the UK in 1992 is wrong as that only applies to boats built before 1985.

The reason for my post is that I have found a boat that I really like but the paperwork is missing. Official wisdom states that I should walk away but I don't want to, hence I made this post in the hope that my head could be convinced that its ok to buy a boat with two thirds of its history missing.

DogWatch, Can I assume that you are making a vote in the 'yeah dont worry about it' camp?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I should also point out that your assertion that the boat is exempt if she was in the UK in 1992 is wrong as that only applies to boats built before 1985.


[/ QUOTE ]

I did not know that and stand corrected, though now you have written it, it does ring a bell somewhere.

My rant was more aimed at 2 things really, the bureaucracy that seems to be brought on by not only governments but the people who are affected who go nuts about a bit of paper. Sorry if you got into my firing line. Stu (sonsy lass) has asked over and over for a single example of someone being done on the VAT issue. People continually come up with but they might, or the french will, but still not a single example has ever been shown on here or in a yachting publication. Yet we are expected to bring a briefcase of receipts every-time we sail...

I also get vexed by many on here who use anything to force a sellers hand. Many sellers find letting a boat go very difficult and to be confronted with a buyer trying to wangle £20 here £100 there over trivia must cause so much stress to all parties. Yet, the same folk on here when selling their own boats will rant and show upset because people have been wasting their time. It was not that you asked, it was an assumption that you could wangle more money off in the same breath. To me, that meant you do not HAVE to own this boat, so she is not the boat for you, do you see?

Unfortunately, the boat you must own; the one which comes with rose tinted specs; well, my boat, has a character. Part of that is the missing paperwork, the odd fault, the twat who designed the lockers around the winch bases. All those things a survey or chats on here will tell you to walk away.

Does that explain my view, please do not take offence, it was not meant in that way.
 
Rarely had original paperwork with any vessel I've bought. As long as it shows the last couple of Bills of Sale I've been happy - and so has everyone else who's needed to see the paperwork, including subsequent buyers.
 
correction

It was not you who suggested money off it was replies you received. Many apologies, my rants were aimed at the wrong person.
 
No Worries Dog, no offence taken.

I don't think I have yet received a reply saying they would flatly refuse to buy the boat. Is there anybody reading who would? Also, Do I have any way of confirming the actual build date of the boat? (do they have a VIN style plaque anywhere?)

Thanks forall the replies btw, they have all been useful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top