Would like to charter. Question: Does the RYA theory part suffice?

[grumpy_o_g]

Why?

I suspect because the person without the quals (who was very experienced in fairness) had actually booked the charter and put it on his card, but possibly just because he looked like the one in charge and was doing most of the talking.

 

[capnsensible]

I have a certificate which says on it "RYA Yachtmaster".

So that's what I call myself.

Simple.

Richard

When I ran a charter company in the UK, the Insurers were only interested in practical experience.

The right was always reserved by all companies at that time to cancel the charter or put a skipper on board if it was obvious the charterer lacked ability. I only ever had to do that once.

I got a certificate that says 'Yachtmaster Ocean endorsed Commercial and Instructor'.

But I call myself 'Chris'.

 

[KellysEye]

Greece,Turkey and Croatia need an ICC, nothing is required in the Caribbean. Theory only doesn't suffice in the Med. Any RYA skipper certificate is acceptable in the Med but the ICC is best because they recognise it.

 

[RichardS]

When I ran a charter company in the UK, the Insurers were only interested in practical experience.

The right was always reserved by all companies at that time to cancel the charter or put a skipper on board if it was obvious the charterer lacked ability. I only ever had to do that once.

That may well be true these days, although it wasn't when I started chartering yachts 30 years ago, but the starting point of my sub-thread was to challenge the oft-stated but incorrect view on this Forum that a shore-based certificate somehow only proves that you have "completed" a course. I can only speak for my Yachtmaster course as it's the only one I've ever undertaken but not only did I have to undertake 100-odd hours of in-depth study but I also had to pass an exam to demonstrate that I fully understood what I had been studying.

For me personally, the practical side of sailing was a doddle having sailed dinghies and chartered for years but the in-depth Meteorology, ColRegs, Navigation etc knowledge was what I wanted.

And you call yourself "CapnSensible" by the way.

Richard

 

[Tranona]

That may well be true these days, although it wasn't when I started chartering yachts 30 years ago, but the starting point of my sub-thread was to challenge the oft-stated but incorrect view on this Forum that a shore-based certificate somehow only proves that you have "completed" a course. I can only speak for my Yachtmaster course as it's the only one I've ever undertaken but not only did I have to undertake 100-odd hours of in-depth study but I also had to pass an exam to demonstrate that I fully understood what I had been studying.

For me personally, the practical side of sailing was a doddle having sailed dinghies and chartered for years but the in-depth Meteorology, ColRegs, Navigation etc knowledge was what I wanted.

And you call yourself "CapnSensible" by the way.

Richard

All that is true about what you had to do to get your certificate all those years ago - I did the same and have the same type of certificate. However it does not even qualify you to get an ICC without having to take the practical assessment like I did subsequently. It is only the practical element that results in the RYA qualification do you automatically qualify for an ICC.

The fact that Croatia does not differentiate is completely irrelevant and probably arouse because the numpty drawing up the list did not know the difference. Not surprising when you consider the hundreds of "equivalencies" they have listed.

The only sound advice on qualifications is on the RYA site which quite clearly states that your certificate does not qualify for an ICC.

 

[Sailfree]

Firstly the trend in many counties is to require an ICC - this is because yachting qualifications are a government requirement.

In UK the government leave qualifications to the RYA and apart from a few motorboat accidents involving either alcohol or kill cords the system works and there have been few problems.

The RYA do not require anyone to take a course before sitting the exam but obviously would recommend it. You may be able to drive a car but the driving test is best taken after a couple of lessons to brush up.

If you take the DS exam it can be on your own boat providing it is of sufficient size as part of the exam is the management of crew. The problem is that the examiner is charging for 2 days of their time so schools spread this cost over say 4 or more candidates.

One mute point is the DSC/VHF course as it is a legal requirement that a person with that cert is on board to use the VHF radio. Again in UK there is not any strict enforcement as there has not been a big enough problem for politicians to get involved.

For all the criticism of the RYA they run a good scheme - sufficiently good that the politicians keep their hands off and long may that continue but beware the trend in all other countries is to insist on qualifications usually the ICC. The RYA will issue a ICC free if you pass their DS and are a member.

I believe you can insist on only taking an ICC exam but as all the examiners are RYA qualified I am not sure they all know any subtle differences between the standard req for an ICC and that for a DS. It's far simpler to just accept the current scheme and do a DS.

 

[RichardS]

All that is true about what you had to do to get your certificate all those years ago - I did the same and have the same type of certificate. However it does not even qualify you to get an ICC without having to take the practical assessment like I did subsequently. It is only the practical element that results in the RYA qualification do you automatically qualify for an ICC.

The fact that Croatia does not differentiate is completely irrelevant and probably arouse because the numpty drawing up the list did not know the difference. Not surprising when you consider the hundreds of "equivalencies" they have listed.

The only sound advice on qualifications is on the RYA site which quite clearly states that your certificate does not qualify for an ICC.

But I absolutely know all that and have not suggested anything different.

The only thing you are not correct about is that it is not completely irrelevant that Croatia does not differentiate as it is Croatia where I sail so it is 100% relevant to me.

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

I believe you can insist on only taking an ICC exam but as all the examiners are RYA qualified I am not sure they all know any subtle differences between the standard req for an ICC and that for a DS. It's far simpler to just accept the current scheme and do a DS.

Of course Instructors do, its their job!

 

[capnsensible]

That may well be true these days, although it wasn't when I started chartering yachts 30 years ago, but the starting point of my sub-thread was to challenge the oft-stated but incorrect view on this Forum that a shore-based certificate somehow only proves that you have "completed" a course. I can only speak for my Yachtmaster course as it's the only one I've ever undertaken but not only did I have to undertake 100-odd hours of in-depth study but I also had to pass an exam to demonstrate that I fully understood what I had been studying.

For me personally, the practical side of sailing was a doddle having sailed dinghies and chartered for years but the in-depth Meteorology, ColRegs, Navigation etc knowledge was what I wanted.

And you call yourself "CapnSensible" by the way.

Richard

OK, for clarity.

The Day Skipper and Coastal Skipper sorebased courses are exactly that. You can take these courses, take the assessment papers at the end and never actually have stepped foot on a boat. So the oft stated view is indeed correct.

The practical courses result in the award of a course completion certificate which for the past few years has been a card with a photo on very similar to an ICC. Whether these are acceptable instead of an ICC is really up to the company.

The examined certificates at Coastal and Offshore are the ones that should allow you to describe yourself accordingly. Otherwise its really bull droppings. Day Skipper practical, remember, is a course completion award.

For a great many sailors, a lot of this doesnt really matter unless you want to charter, go commercial, or just otherwise want to have a bit of coaching to improve your skills. Happily for me, plenty do!

You were lucky too 30 years ago, I was involved part time in the charter business then and the situations I mentioned before certainly applied then.

Hope this helps!

Capnsensible (but you can call me Chris)

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Ive chartered in Croatia and the requirement was DS (full) or ICC and VHF.

 

[Sailfree]

Of course Instructors do, its their job!

What is the difference in the requirements for a DS and an ICC then please?

As an ICC is automatically awarded on passing a DS I assume there are some things not required for the ICC that are for the DS.

 

[Way]

I've been in touch with a couple of big charter firms in the Solent before - I have c.2000nm experience and the YM Theory Course completion certificate - and they said they would accommodate me. PM me if you want names

 

[RichardS]

OK, for clarity.

The Day Skipper and Coastal Skipper sorebased courses are exactly that. You can take these courses, take the assessment papers at the end and never actually have stepped foot on a boat. So the oft stated view is indeed correct.

Nope.

You seem to accept, as I do, that in common parlance "taking the course" is a separate concept to "passing the assessment papers" at the end. So the "oft stated" view that obtaining a YM classroom certificate requires one only to "complete the course" is, by your own admission, indeed incorrect.

One must, in common parlance, both complete the course and pass the examination. Like a traditional Uni degree where one must complete both the course and pass the examination to at least Class III before one can put BSc (Hons) after ones name. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

What is the difference in the requirements for a DS and an ICC then please?

As an ICC is automatically awarded on passing a DS I assume there are some things not required for the ICC that are for the DS.

Here you go. Its very similar. I have generally found that people who just need an ICC have some good practical experience behind them already.

http://www.rya.org.uk/training-support/Documents/Course_appl_forms/App_ICC.pdf

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/Dayskipper.aspx

I suppose you can compare it to a car test. You have enough in your head to keep you safe enough, but you can then go out and get experience. Except, of course, its voluntary and doesnt suit all.

Hope this helps.

:encouragement:

 

[capnsensible]

Nope.

You seem to accept, as I do, that in common parlance "taking the course" is a separate concept to "passing the assessment papers" at the end. So the "oft stated" view that obtaining a YM classroom certificate requires one only to "complete the course" is, by your own admission, indeed incorrect.

One must, in common parlance, both complete the course and pass the examination. Like a traditional Uni degree where one must complete both the course and pass the examination to at least Class III before one can put BSc (Hons) after ones name. :encouragement:

Richard

Completing the course in this case clearly also means proving you have understood it by being assessed in your theory knowledge. Not sure what you are actually asking........

 

[capnsensible]

What is the difference in the requirements for a DS and an ICC then please?

As an ICC is automatically awarded on passing a DS I assume there are some things not required for the ICC that are for the DS.

Of course, having completed Professional Practices and Responsibilities as part of your Commercial Endorsement, you will know this. Like Instructors do.

 

[RichardS]

Completing the course in this case clearly also means proving you have understood it by being assessed in your theory knowledge. Not sure what you are actually asking........

I'm not going through it again. It's all in post #33

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

the starting point of my sub-thread was to challenge the oft-stated but incorrect view on this Forum that a shore-based certificate somehow only proves that you have "completed" a course.

Richard

That is, indeed, all it does. Not sure why you dont get that. But its perhaps not worth a pedants dance!

 

[owen-cox]

I can tell you from personal experience that some of the large charter companies ask to authorise a valid credit card and that is sufficient! Even those who had done a competent crew course in 1980 and not been on a boat for 25 years are perfectly acceptable along with the credit card.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Until last year I never had any sort of boating 'qualification' beyond a VHF cert and a RYA Powerboat level 2 certificate that I got as a result of competing a course at work (and in fact had forgotten I held until it fell out of a file whilst I was looking for my VHF cert) and I've never had any issues charting (from UK companies sailing in the Med).